Catching fake "paintball" masks

[MrBarraclough]

Earlier this month, as we came off the field from the first game there was this father and son waiting by the net watching, all geared up and ready to play their first ever game of paintball. They had their masks up on top of their heads. I noticed the son's mask and immediately stopped him to explain that what he had wasn't actually a paintball mask. Spoke with him and his dad for a bit and learned that they'd decided to get into paintball so they just hopped on Amazon, ordered some gear, and here they were. Dad had an actual paintball mask, an Empire X-Ray, but son had picked out what he thought was a cooler looking mask, probably branded ANYOUPIN or NINAT or somesuch. Both said "paintball" on their Amazon pages and they didn't have any reason to know any better. I recognized the son's mask as cheap Chinese junk commonly mislabeled for paintball despite being nowhere near ASTM F1776 compliant. They accepted my explanation and the field staff loaned the son a rental mask for free. I hate that they got ripped off like that.

What worries me more is that some of these mislabeled junk masks might slip through at a busy field, especially if staff are new and/or shorthanded. Often, field staff may be minimum wage high school or college kids with no particular interest in paintball who aren't likely to be familiar enough with the various masks to reliably spot the unsafe junk. So today I did something I have thought about for a while and threw together a quick and dirty field reference for the more common unsafe masks, which is attached as a pdf. Wondering what you guys think. If my buddy who is the senior ref at our local field likes it, I'll probably have some color prints made and laminated and donate them to the field as an aid to new staff members.

All the masks pictured in my rogues' gallery of dangerously mislabeled junk came from the first 4 pages of search results on Amazon for "paintball mask." I find that concerning.

[Jonnydread]

Wow this is fascinating and awful. I had no idea there were knockoffs of known brands. I've seen some of the masks on the top of the page, but it's usually with airsofters so my assumption is that the rules are just different. Good to know!

Not sure if it will actually do anything, but should we report these to Amazon? Maybe to the ASTM regulatory body?

Thanks for putting the PDF together.

[MrBarraclough]

Unfortunately, Amazon does not have a "Report this listing" link or button in the way that ebay does. I've tried contacting Amazon's customer service a couple of times about it in the last few years, and there's nothing the CS reps can do other than vaguely promise to have someone look into it.

Amazon has a serious problem with unsafe masks that it apparently does not want to hear about.

ASTM has no enforcement powers. It just sets standards. Maybe these could be reported to the FTC, since mislabeling them as paintball masks when there is an accepted industry standard they do not meet arguably constitutes an unfair and deceptive trade practice. Or maybe the CPSC. I would hate to bring paintball to the greater attention of regulatory bodies though, since they tend to swat flies with sledgehammers. Just wish there was a way to get Amazon to listen and act responsibly.

[KMDPB]

A buddy of mine bought one of these and I told him he couldn't use it at our feild. He didn't believe me so I took it off his head and set it on a tree at 50ft. The first shot shattered the lense and blew right through the mask. Would have 100% left you blinded. He was pissed thar I broke his new mask, and i was like dude I just saved your vision.

[MrBarraclough]

I wish I'd thought to offer that kid and his dad $20 for the mask to hang up at the chrono range.

[Jonnydread]

HA wow what a reaction. He was probably a little dumbfounded at the time I'm sure

[DocsMachine]

Much appreciated, I think that's a handy PDF. That should get passed around, printed out and taken to everyone's nearest field. (I didn't know, myself, how many fakes there were...)

But, to play Devils' Advocate here, it's really not Amazon's job to police things like that. Outright counterfeits, sure. If DYE called up Amazon and pointed out that X seller was selling DYE-branded masks that didn't come from DYE, Amazon would do something about it.

But if some random schmo calls up and says "this thing that says it's for paintball isn't good for paintball"... so? Trust me, I understand the point from the player and field owner perspective, and I very much sympathize. But from the legality and business standpoint, it's irrelevant.

Put it this way: I could sell those masks labeled as good for clipping your cat's toenails, or good protection while binge-watching "Friends". I could label them as ideal for rock climbing and handy while texting your ex.

Yeah, all of that is stupid, but not in any way a reason for Amazon to have the ad taken down.

All we can do is raise awareness. Do some demos and make up a YouTube video. Spread the word on Facebook and Reddit. That's about the best we can do.

Doc.

[TF_Aloha]

I respectfully disagree - it is Amazon's responsibility and they should be civilly and criminally liable for any injuries. I understand that legally in the US they are not responsible, so that's a critical "should."

They are not required to be a billion dollar business. If they choose to sell stuff, they need to do it responsibly. If they can't, then they can simply not sell things. I don't sell safety equipment. You probably don't either. It's entirely possible to survive life without being a middleman for safety equipment sales. Amazon chose to sell it though.

A responsible company would vet safety products, forbid commingled inventory with them, and enthusiastically assist with the prosecution of counterfeiters. If they can't do this, just don't sell it.

[Shaftski]

not limited to amazon all over ebay and other sites too been like that for a long time

unfortunately with any sport where possibility of injury is real ....it's up to the consumer to educate themselves. don't get me started about motorcycle helmet certifications.

[Trbo323]

This is fantastic, id love to send this to my local fields. A few suggestions just to make it better if you are open to them,

1) maybe a big red banner across the top that reads "notice to fields" or something like that just to grab attention once it's tapped to a wall

2) in the counterfeit section, maybe point out something that would be an easy way to identify the fake masks.

The i4 for example, doesn't have the Dye logo jewel on the nose, easy to see from 10 feet away if you know what to look for.

Wow this is fascinating and awful. I had no idea there were knockoffs of known brands. I've seen some of the masks on the top of the page, but it's usually with airsofters so my assumption is that the rules are just different. Good to know!

Not sure if it will actually do anything, but should we report these to Amazon? Maybe to the ASTM regulatory body?

Thanks for putting the PDF together.

I think reporting is a good idea. I'm not sure how to go about that though

A buddy of mine bought one of these and I told him he couldn't use it at our feild. He didn't believe me so I took it off his head and set it on a tree at 50ft. The first shot shattered the lense and blew right through the mask. Would have 100% left you blinded. He was pissed thar I broke his new mask, and i was like dude I just saved your vision.

Yeah seriously, good call. Better to have a pissed friend who can see than a blind friend who finds out later that you knew it was not safe

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[Trbo323]

But, to play Devils' Advocate here, it's really not Amazon's job to police things like that. Outright counterfeits, sure. If DYE called up Amazon and pointed out that X seller was selling DYE-branded masks that didn't come from DYE, Amazon would do something about it.

I'm sure Amazon doesn't want mislabeled things on the site either and that's exactly what these are right now. This strikes me as the same thing that people were doing in the mid 2000s on eBay. Go look for a "dye dm6" and hey, here's one and it's a decent price. Only has one photo and a minimal description. You buy it and a wall poster of a dm6 is what arrives. eBay at some point cracked down on this behavior because it was giving the site as a whole a bad reputation.

I think the real problem might be that Amazon is global not just US so our regulations for what makes a "safe" mask doesn't apply everywhere

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[minimag03]

This is the type of stuff that shows up on local news and gives paintball a bad name. I hope no has been hurt by one of these. But if it hasn't happened yet, it's only a matter of time.

[Chappy]

A few busted lenses and insurers will start requiring fields to inspect masks.

[Euphie]

I have seen the skull masks firsthand, and the refs at KC Crusaders in South Prairie, WA were all over it. Seems like the sort of thing they had dealt with a bunch with the way they handled it. The idea of a counterfeit I4 though is a bit scary as I don't know how I would spot it

[Trbo323]

A few busted lenses and insurers will start requiring fields to inspect masks.

I'm no paintball insurance expert but I imagine they are already required to check hydro dates on tanks and Chrono speeds but that's definitely not something that every field does

I have seen the skull masks firsthand, and the refs at KC Crusaders in South Prairie, WA were all over it. Seems like the sort of thing they had dealt with a bunch with the way they handled it. The idea of a counterfeit I4 though is a bit scary as I don't know how I would spot it

You must be in my neck of the woods. KCs is typically on top of things, especially with the new owners

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[Euphie]

KC Crusaders and Operation Paintball aren't that far from me, I do have to do a bit of a drive to get to either, one of these days I will get up to DoodleBug Sportz. I wish I got out more often, you can recognize me pretty easily, I am probably the only woman with a Shoebox Shocker who plays in Washington

[Euphie]

I'm no paintball insurance expert but I imagine they are already required to check hydro dates on tanks and Chrono speeds but that's definitely not something that every field doesYou must be in my neck of the woods. KCs is typically on top of things, especially with the new owners

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I forgot you can't see comments so I will post it here as a reply

• • KC Crusaders and Operation Paintball aren't that far from me, I do have to do a bit of a drive to get to either, one of these days I will get up to DoodleBug Sportz. I wish I got out more often, you can recognize me pretty easily, I am probably the only woman with a Shoebox Shocker who plays in Washington

Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cJocIzUnIM&t=364s here is some video of it, I don't play often so I need some evidence lol

[Chappy]

You are correct on those being insurance requirements . I have already seen tank refusal as a means for a field to make money selling or renting one. Im surprised it doesn’t happen more often. As far as fields not chrono-ing, I leave those fields rather than play at them.

[Trbo323]

I forgot you can't see comments so I will post it here as a reply

• • KC Crusaders and Operation Paintball aren't that far from me, I do have to do a bit of a drive to get to either, one of these days I will get up to DoodleBug Sportz. I wish I got out more often, you can recognize me pretty easily, I am probably the only woman with a Shoebox Shocker who plays in Washington

Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cJocIzUnIM&t=364s here is some video of it, I don't play often so I need some evidence lol

Yeah I imagine that would be pretty easy.

I'm down in Vancouver, most of our team is down here as well, but I have family up in Auburn. Probably once a year we go north to play, typically at OP although we have been meaning to do KCs again.

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[Bow]

I've caught several of those when I was at the field still. Plenty of army of two styled ones and recently some dude on the magfed paintball FB page posted that he bought this "sick" mask to stand out.

Thank goodness the community dogpiled him telling him it's not a real mask and not safe. But he deleted his post and is probably still gonna use it.