My favorite paintball webpage is still up 20+ years later!

[The Inflicted]

A team I met at a scenario in Georgia many years ago, the Pukin Dogs, had a really nice gallery page up.
Sadly someone re-designed the site recently and the gallery links aren't working anymore, but this gives similar vibes:

https://pukindogspaintball.com/gallery/GALLERY.htm

Dig this one is particular:

[jetenginekyle]

I started the mirror for this one too, hopefully the gallery photos are still in the websites directory since that would make the photos accessible via file explorer

[Trbo323]

Or if you were fancy you'd just throw it on a massive 100MB zip disk...

What is this? Some sci-fi fantasy where you can just store anything on a mobile device?

Give me a break next you're going to tell me it's the year 2020 where we will obviously have flying cars, there's hotels on the moon and the whole world works peacefully together

What's next are you going to tell me I can have a whole gigabyte of RAM? We all know it's scientific fact that the computers will catch on fire with anything over 512 MB

Excuse me while I go update my screensaver

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[Brokeass_baller]

What are you talking about? My Commodore 64 is the greatest there is!

[William the Third]

Man, you would need 5 whole 3.5 inch floppy discs to store it!

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Or if you were fancy you'd just throw it on a massive 100MB zip disk...

Or three 2.88 MB floppies, if you could find a drive/disk. Would also fit on one Floptical/LS-120/LS-240/UHD144/HiFD disk, with room to spare, if you can find a drive/disk. We could even get more exotic, and use MO disc, but still going to have problems locating a drive/disc.

Could use something more efficient than ZIP, but even using ZPAQ only got it ~0.5MB smaller. It's a pretty hard to compress archive, seeing as it's mainly made up of already lossy compressed JPEGs.

[Painthappy]

Another old one (I keep a list of these actually) that I tracked down from 1999 and still alive is: https://kpog.tripod.com/

[DocsMachine]

Another old one (I keep a list of these actually) that I tracked down from 1999 and still alive is: https://kpog.tripod.com/

-Jim Masse? Netbabbler? Durty Dan?!?

... I feel like I just saw my own 'Dorian Gray' portrait and am about to crumble to dust.

Doc.

[martix_agent]

I wonder how long it will be until somebody does this with this very website. A lot of forums have already become quite dusty and nostalgic.

[Trbo323]

I wonder how long it will be until somebody does this with this very website. A lot of forums have already become quite dusty and nostalgic.

Man I just downloaded all of MCB into my neural implant! It was only 2 gigs can you believe it?

Lol, you wouldn't mean like pbf would you

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[William the Third]

I can carry nearly 80 gigs of data in my head. One sixty if l use a doubler.

[martix_agent]

in the 200's there seems to be a lot of them, but they're all dead and gone now. Even PBN is a ghost compared to this site.

I've been reading through this website that was linked and it speaks to me... I want to to be true so badly. I want the stores to be true, I want the tactics to be true.
I also know that it can't possibly be true and it's almost all fiction or is at least heavily embellished.. First strike makes some of it possible, though.

[uv_halo]

I can't get to the site now to look at it (I'm blocked from viewing non-https) but, it does stir some memories. IIRC didn't they have a members only area / forum? I have a vague memory around the time that First Strikes were announced, I went there to check out if there were any content or discussions about them. I came away feeling like it had already been dead by that point. In the years leading up to that point, the push against tactical paintball, and especially paintball snipers was widespread and, deep. I'm not calling anyone out but, even today, consider how "silly" this website was received by some in this thread.

It is my firm belief that this more than a decade's worth of disdain (by players, and most of the industry), ultimately led to the growth of airsoft (which actually arrived in the U.S. within a year or two of paintball). Sure, some of them moved into mainstream paintball but, I bet that 2-3x as many gave up (or never got involved) and moved over to airsoft where even 'airsoft snipers' were accepted (but, no more justified). Note that I'm not referring to LARPing levels of 'tactical', just those players who believe that camo is worthwhile, and that some 'military' field tactics can be applied in a paintball game, and not deserving of ridicule if they want to have a gun that looks more tactical.

This interest ultimately led to the success of Specops PB which unfortunately, got bought and broken up by Tippmann before First Strikes entered the scene.

[martix_agent]

It is my firm belief that this more than a decade's worth of disdain (by players, and most of the industry), ultimately led to the growth of airsoft (which actually arrived in the U.S. within a year or two of paintball). Sure, some of them moved into mainstream paintball but, I bet that 2-3x as many gave up (or never got involved) and moved over to airsoft where even 'airsoft snipers' were accepted (but, no more justified). Note that I'm not referring to LARPing levels of 'tactical', just those players who believe that camo is worthwhile, and that some 'military' field tactics can be applied in a paintball game, and not deserving of ridicule if they want to have a gun that looks more tactical.

This interest ultimately led to the success of Specops PB which unfortunately, got bought and broken up by Tippmann before First Strikes entered the scene.

I think you're on to something here. in airsoft you can play a specific role if you want to because they do actually fly straight, have different weights etc etc. If we can do some of the stuff they do in airsoft, it would be amazing. But the blatant cheating in airsoft what keeps each and every ones of us playing paintball.

[uv_halo]

I think you're on to something here. in airsoft you can play a specific role if you want to because they do actually fly straight, have different weights etc etc. If we can do some of the stuff they do in airsoft, it would be amazing. But the blatant cheating in airsoft what keeps each and every ones of us playing paintball.

Ballistically, they're still lightweight, round projectiles (with no seam). That being said, the game implemented different weights and even different velocities, and this increased the differences between 'roles'. I'd like to see a variant of this come to paintball. Different projectile shapes and cailbers .50 Round, .50FS, .68 Round, .68FS and this doesn't even account for different velocities (which, due to ASTM we couldn't raise but, we could lower some).

I didn't speak to player retention. I actually had an airsoft gun (a Daisy "Soft Air", 1911) at least a couple years before I got my first paintball gun. After many seasons of playing Squirt Gun (entertech) battles, laser tag, and rubber band gun battles, I realized very quickly that hit evidence would be a problem with airsoft. Amongst friends, cheating can be minimized or mitigated. Once you go public, that is entirely dependent on the player to ref ratio, and thus the need for evidence. This is why I think airsoft has such a big turnover, compared to paintball.

[uv_halo]

Just now getting into the site. Right off, the ad for GoggleSkinz is right up top and they/he shutdown operations between 2011 and 2013. Given that the latest piece of 'tech' I can recognize in pics is the flatline, they may not have lived much beyond 1999 and they may have lost a lot of membership over to SpecopsPB which had a sub-forum that was at least welcoming to paintball snipers.

[Trbo323]

I don't think what you are saying is wrong based on the criteria you played out but I also think you are missing some pretty big contributing factors

. In the years leading up to that point, the push against tactical paintball, and especially paintball snipers was widespread and, deep. I'm not calling anyone out but, even today, consider how "silly" this website was received by some in this thread.

To me, and I think many, the push wasn't against milsim play but more the ignorance and egotisticalness of the players themselves. Especially around the early 2000s there was so much misinformation and misconceptions around paintball, ballistics, tactics etc that what felt like the average milsim player was little more than a snake oil dealer.

Here, since you can't see the page, here's the "paintball snipers creed" from it

"No paintball player is more professional than I.  I am among the elite.  I revel in the thrill of the game.  I accept nothing less than victory.


A single shot is all I need.  I will strive to remain technically and tactically proficient in my craft.  I will know paintball and I will make myself available to others to provide help or advice if needed.


No one is more dedicated to the game than I.  I take great pride in my position and will at all times conduct myself to bring credit to my sport.


I will take no action to bring disgrace upon my sport of paintball.  Never shall I wipe paint or turn a blind eye if another should do likewise.


I will never forget that I am a professional.  That I am the best of the best.  A predator among prey.  I am a paintball sniper.  I am an army…….of one."

The " I am elite, best of the best, I know everything" speech is basically what prevailed. These players would basically put themselves on pedestals like they were what they claimed when in reality most of them had been playing for less than 5 years and really hadn't experienced much in the sport outside of their little bubble.

If someone WANTS to dress up and play milsim soldier with a 10lb marker, cool, do it. The problem was this was pushed by the average milsim player as having "better performance" you must wear camo because you can't hide without it, a long barrel gives you more range, a red dot makes your marker (not you, your marker) more accurate etc etc.

The industry didn't care, the companies were quite happy to sell players the same marker or barrel 5 times in a row. I don't blame them either.

It is my firm belief that this more than a decade's worth of disdain (by players, and most of the industry), ultimately led to the growth of airsoft (which actually arrived in the U.S. within a year or two of paintball). Sure, some of them moved into mainstream paintball but, I bet that 2-3x as many gave up (or never got involved) and moved over to airsoft where even 'airsoft snipers' were accepted (but, no more justified). Note that I'm not referring to LARPing levels of 'tactical', just those players who believe that camo is worthwhile, and that some 'military' field tactics can be applied in a paintball game, and not deserving of ridicule if they want to have a gun that looks more tactical.

I don't quite agree with this for two reasons.

1) In airsoft the sniper roll has an advantage in the era you are talking about, more range.
The paintball sniper using round ball has no extra range and no extra accuracy over anyone else on the field. Basically all they are doing is camping. This split the roll of the sniper into two camps, the ignorant players who actually believed they were getting more range and accuracy and the players who knew they were not but still liked playing the roll. The first group would typically realize they didn't have an advantage and get discouraged because it meant the $350 they spent in sniper accessories had basically been a waste and the second group was so small that it didn't really effect anything on the large scale

2) airsoft is cheaper, always has been always will be. It's much cheaper to get set up and play as an airsoft sniper than a paintball sniper not to mention the gear can look more realistic.

So if the goal is to play the sniper roll and have the on field advantage that the roll classically does, then airsoft is easily the better choice. With the normal "gi Joe" player, the advantages are less for airsoft but not nothing.

Ballistically, they're still lightweight, round projectiles (with no seam). That being said, the game implemented different weights and even different velocities, and this increased the differences between 'roles'. I'd like to see a variant of this come to paintball. Different projectile shapes and cailbers .50 Round, .50FS, .68 Round, .68FS and this doesn't even account for different velocities (which, due to ASTM we couldn't raise but, we could lower some).

This is kind of the largest factor though. Airsoft has no fixed velocity limit so the snipers can shoot at wild velocity. This is also why airsoft will always be more dangerous though. Players even find ways around it as well.

Short side story, I heard about an indoor airsoft arena that would make players Chrono. Ok, cool, thing is they had you use . 1g bbs to Chrono so everything was consistent, ok, again, cool. Problem is, especially if you are using an green gas or HPA powered gun, you can Chrono to a safe speed using .1g bbs but when you switch to your own . 15g bbs the muzzle energy actually goes up because of the longer time and therefore more force the bbs absorb in the barrel.

The lack of universal velocity or ammunition standards give airsoft the ability to have classes but also make it more of a wild wild West when it comes to safety

Your idea of different rolls, velocity and whatnot isn't bad it would just be hard to implement. That's a lot of organizing

I didn't speak to player retention. I actually had an airsoft gun (a Daisy "Soft Air", 1911) at least a couple years before I got my first paintball gun. After many seasons of playing Squirt Gun (entertech) battles, laser tag, and rubber band gun battles, I realized very quickly that hit evidence would be a problem with airsoft. Amongst friends, cheating can be minimized or mitigated. Once you go public, that is entirely dependent on the player to ref ratio, and thus the need for evidence. This is why I think airsoft has such a big turnover, compared to paintball.

I had a roommate in college who played airsoft on a bit of a competitive format. He was saying that while yes it's primarily still honor based, some of the tournaments were actually moving to the 6mm bbs to have marked hits. I'm not sure that anything came of this as I haven't heard of it since then but yeah, they were basically moving airsoft to be more like paintball for the exact reasons you are talking about.

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[uv_halo]

Some clarification up front.
To me, “MilSim Paintball” is a gameplay format that includes LARPing elements (medics, wounding, etc). Tactical Paintball refers to how a player equips themselves and conducts themselves on the field (i.e. sights and or stocks on a gun, carrying a backup pistol, wearing and properly using camo on the field). I’m not saying any tactical idea is always the best idea but, I’m not dismissing it outright either.

I don't think what you are saying is wrong based on the criteria you played out but I also think you are missing some pretty big contributing factors

To me, and I think many, the push wasn't against milsim play but more the ignorance and egotisticalness of the players themselves. Especially around the early 2000s there was so much misinformation and misconceptions around paintball, ballistics, tactics etc that what felt like the average milsim player was little more than a snake oil dealer.

I can’t speak for you but, I personally observed many conversations where folks (completely new, or a low post count) posted a pic of their ‘tactical’ Tippmann and the responses were along the lines “get rid all that stupid stuff that is making your Tippmann heavy”, “Sights don’t work anyways”, “for all the money you put into that, you could’ve saved a little bit more and got a [insert electro of choice]". I saw this at the field just as often. The mantra was ‘Start with a Tippmann, get gud, get an electro and start competing (in speedball)”. Overwhelmingly, most of the ‘tactically’ interested players were new, which makes sense when you think about this game you’re getting into where you’re going to be shooting at other people who will be shooting back at you, more often than not, in the woods.

I hold the industry (to include field operators, equipment manufacturers, media, etc) as at least partially responsible or complicit because they entirely catered to one (speedball) side of the market. Look at the guns released between 1990 and 2010. How many paintball-specific clothing manufacturers made camo patterns? That side of the industry dwindled down and down until Specops PB came on the scene and by that point, it was just the Tippmann guns (98s and A-5s), and the tactical Mag (the name escapes me). Look at how fields (as playing area vs park) got smaller, with lots of bunkers, as Tom Kaye would later describe as Speedball in the woods. Where were all the magazines focused? Where were all the videos (as in DVD releases) focused? Even the UWL was speedball in the woods.

Here, since you can't see the page, here's the "paintball snipers creed" from it

I saw it last night. I chalked it up as bravado that a little group trying to grow their numbers would put up. They clearly never grew much or stuck around very long. In my experience, I’d say they were an outlier. At least until Specops PB started posting their ‘doctrin’ but, that was a company made up of paintball players pushing a different (at the time) direction for paintball

If someone WANTS to dress up and play milsim soldier with a 10lb marker, cool, do it. The problem was this was pushed by the average milsim player as having "better performance" you must wear camo because you can't hide without it, a long barrel gives you more range, a red dot makes your marker (not you, your marker) more accurate etc etc.

The industry didn't care, the companies were quite happy to sell players the same marker or barrel 5 times in a row. I don't blame them either.

There was plenty of misinformation going around all over paintball. Even a notable individual on this forum (prior to the crash) who tried to convince others that if you shoot a wall long enough, from far enough away, an accurate paintball barrel will leave a donut shaped ring. Oh, and Elliptically honed barrels are the absolute best for accuracy and consistency (in FPS).

1) In airsoft the sniper roll has an advantage in the era you are talking about, more range.

The paintball sniper using round ball has no extra range and no extra accuracy over anyone else on the field. Basically all they are doing is camping. This split the roll of the sniper into two camps, the ignorant players who actually believed they were getting more range and accuracy and the players who knew they were not but still liked playing the roll. The first group would typically realize they didn't have an advantage and get discouraged because it meant the $350 they spent in sniper accessories had basically been a waste and the second group was so small that it didn't really effect anything on the large scale

There were two ways an airsoft sniper could get more range than other players but, I suspect this went away once airsoft fields started getting insurance and, the ASTM created regulations for airsoft (my local PB/Airsoft field doesn’t afford snipers anything). Higher velocity and/or higher density BBs. Airsoft BBs are more spherical than a paintball but, they’re still spheres so, they aren’t that much more accurate if at all. Even if fired at a higher velocity they will still slow down incredibly fast.

That being said, your mention of camping is yet another thing someone punching down on the new player would accuse them of if they wanted to ‘set an ambush’ (i.e. at or near the flag station). Very much “Play my way” don’t you think?

Being dissatisfied with my gear was the story of my paintball life until First Strikes came out. I still played because of the people I played with. I tried rifled barrels (when Armson was new), I tried the flatline barrel, and I tried the apex just to be sure. I converted my Ion to a single-finger electro because I wanted a quieter gun and never liked the two-finger trigger grip. I tried the Qloader to get the hopper off the top before switching to the Warp Feed. I never once got to the point of believing a dot sight was not worth the weight- It’s great for quickly and repeatedly lining up a shot at distances as far as 75’. I’ve used camo to good effect (being as thorough to camo my gun and using Goggleskinz) in nearly every game (rec and scenario). I’m not trying to say that I’m super sneaky sniper man but, rather, in wooded environments, I nearly always spot enemy players before I am spotted. Often because they are simply moving more (which camo doesn’t help at all with) or, I’m seeing their mask, hopper or gun because they don’t blend into nature (due to no camo, and or brightly colored). The question becomes “can I line up a shot before they unload on me”?

2) airsoft is cheaper, always has been always will be. It's much cheaper to get set up and play as an airsoft sniper than a paintball sniper not to mention the gear can look more realistic.

So if the goal is to play the sniper roll and have the on field advantage that the roll classically does, then airsoft is easily the better choice. With the normal "gi Joe" player, the advantages are less for airsoft but not nothing.

The recurring costs are definitely lower. But, they don’t come with hit verification. This causes lots of problems for public snipers because the hit player will keep playing sometimes only to draw the sniper out.
At parks where ammo isn’t checked or velocity regulated it will be the wild west if it’s public.

I had a roommate in college who played airsoft on a bit of a competitive format. He was saying that while yes it's primarily still honor based, some of the tournaments were actually moving to the 6mm bbs to have marked hits. I'm not sure that anything came of this as I haven't heard of it since then but yeah, they were basically moving airsoft to be more like paintball for the exact reasons you are talking about.

Everything I’ve seen about capsule BBs is that they are garbage (don’t fly well, cause problems in guns, etc). What I find most amusing is the concept of speedsoft (and yes, it’s played just like speedball). It’s being pitched as a competitive, more adrenalin-driven format.

[martix_agent]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIgyq03ydwA

Found good sniper content on youtube. man that emf100 really looks like can actually do anything, other than electric firing.
I also found a video where the same guy puts a DAM box mag onto one of these with relatively no modifications other than a standard dye rotor for parts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9hNtSAjhsE