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**iamthelazerviking** · 05-10-2024, 08:56 AM

In addition to my good paintballs comment... probably more stuff designed to fit long lanky dudes like me. Especially arm pads and pants. Although the Kinetic pants are pretty much perfect.

**DavidBoren** · 05-10-2024, 09:40 AM

I would restart Evil...
1. Omen
2. Pimp
3. Minion
4. Ehm

And I would bring back the Brass Eagle Rainmaker.

**Grendel** · 05-10-2024, 09:44 AM

As already stated, high quality and consistent paint made at scale for reasonable cost to end customers independent from the big corps.
Customized paintballs for the discerning player/field [e.g. 0.62 cal. for the SMG owners, custom shell/fill, larger bore 0.690 for old school fixed barrel markers...etc.]
Goggle, Mask and accessories combinations designed to be user friendly for interchangeability Give players the ability to mix and match parts as part of the design and provide a variety of in house configurations but also make the design open source for player creativity. Core mask/googles will attempt to recapture the greatness of the original Vents [TN] Predator/Rage Masks IMO still the best googles/mask combination created to date.
Robust Chronograph able to survive a season of renters without repair, that has things like 3 shot averaging, BPS counter....etc. at a price reflective of the technology, manufacturability and materials. (Current/Past offerings (Big Red) are/were frankly overpriced for what goes into them. The biggest hurtle really is manufacturing line availability/time vs. volume).
Pneumatic Fittings, hoses, accessories and tools designed for Paintball use cases [i.e. pressure, configurations, hardiness, quality, re-buildability] While most of what we have available right now works and there are a few niche provides that make semi-custom parts they are really a compromised use of parts for other purposes. Design what is needed for paintball then scale up the manufacturing to take advantage of economy of scale so there are good parts at a reasonable price that are designed to function with the various use cases predominate in Paintball.

**Tarsun2** · 05-10-2024, 11:22 AM

best way to make a small fortune in paintball is to start with a big one... lol

**$L!mBo** · 05-10-2024, 01:14 PM

-Sconi style elbows that stop at 45° instead of the leaning angle

-inexpensive and quality piercer seals for stock class and mag fed

-arduino controlled blue/red lightpost "capture points"
free standing with a weighted base to stay portable. these would probably be pvc to keep costs down with a red and blue button near the base and programmable for a variety of game styles.
in one mode, lights at the top of the posts change color depending on which team "controls" them. either team would have to hold their respective button down for X amount of time to switch the lights over to their color.
amount of time to switch colors can be programmed to anything. an instant "slap" or "needs to be physically held down for 2 min" ect. .....
in another game mode, X team defends the posts from the attacking team. defenders are not allowed outside a large, central building. the posts are beyond the walls but well within range with little to no cover to hide behind while being switched over by the attackers
endless possibilities for other game modes. these effectively become big game props/flags/spawn points/ ect.....

-all of the printed StockClassHeros products but aluminum 🤣🤣 Dont worry Stockclass Heroes, we would work out a "licensing fee"

- 12g gas in grip valve/frame for phantom

**zinger565** · 05-10-2024, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Lane View Post

I would target a lower cost pump marker. Maybe a nelson style valve train, aluminum body with cocker threads, injection molded frame and undercocking pump. Think an undercocking nelson designed to be built for mass production. Easy to maintenance, reliable and affordable ($150 - $200) price range maybe less. Try and expand the market by focusing on cheaper and more approachable play kind of like when paintball first started.

I love the idea of an inexpensive pump marker that's easy to use. Field owners would not be happy, but I don't think it would hit their bottom line too much.

Better full-head protection options. I know a lot of new/young players/renters want something that protects their head.

Better paint, obviously, and a pink fill that doesn't stain.

Rebuildable solenoid replacements for markers that do not have them.

That's all I got for now...

**DocsMachine** · 05-10-2024, 02:12 PM

While I understand you are being humorous and a lot of people struggle to be profitable with a paintball business there are examples of people who have been profitable[...]

-Of course they have. Bud Orr, Bob Long, Jack Wood, Mike Cassidy, Tom Kaye, the Gardners, ad nauseum. There's actually a pretty significant list of people who made anything from a decent living (Glenn Palmer) to a large fortune (Dave DeHaan) in this sport. There's still some today, like Planet Eclipse.

The issue is quite simply the current economy, which is not doing pretty much anyone any good, and the fact this sport has both fallen a bit out of favor and has increased competition from other sports and pastimes. The 'industry' we have is, for all intents and purposes, just coasting. It may pick up again if or when the economy improves, but the sad fact is, we'll never again see the 'glory days' when manufacturers like Bob Long and WDP were damn near doing the "gun of the month" routine.

If any 'venture capitalist' actually wanted to invest in this sport, the money should go to expanding it, first. Virtually no one, inside or outside the sport, is doing that right now.

Doc.

**DocsMachine** · 05-11-2024, 09:38 PM

So out of genuine curiosity, any doc approved ad campaign strategy?

Most of us will recall the "Got Milk?" commercials, billboards and other ads. Those weren't paid for by any one producer of milk, they were the product of something like The Ad Council, and funded by dairy co-ops in general. And for the same purpose I'm talking about- to promote the product in general, not any one specific store or brand.

There were also those "this is your brain on drugs" ads, and dozens of others. No one brand or company paid for those, a bunch of companies in those industries did.

And, generally speaking, they worked. If somebody could come up with some interesting, clever and funny commercials, that were just "check out your local field today!" or something like that, I suspect, at least at the beginning, they'd get enough "buzz" to have a measurable effect on the sport.

The problem is, we have no similar industry trade group who would work toward the overall good, rather than one or the other individual businesses. And, even if we did, they wouldn't have much money to play with- the milk guys had government grants and mandated public-service ad-time, on top of millions invested by the dairies.

TV ads are fabulously expensive. Newspaper ads are less so, but that's because hardly anyone reads those anymore. We'd have to invest those limited funds in the same online advertising everyone else is using- which are being blocked and ignored en masse like all other forms of online advertising.

That's not to say it'd have "no" effect, but it'd be a lot less of an effect than the "got milk?" type commercials from 20 years ago.

Apart from that, you'd have to do the same thing everyone else is doing these days- hitting social media hard. Get an influencer or three in on it, get a good Twitter channel going, (as well as BlueSky, Mastadon and all the others out there) Facebook, Instagram, the works. You'd need to pay a good team to keep it all up-to-the-minute, since social media relies on people with 37-second attention spans. Haven't updated since yesterday at noon? Page is practically abandoned, move on to the next thing. 🙄

All together? Sorry, I have no other magic bullets. As I've said in other threads, the sport is it's own worst enemy- it's not cheap, it's dirty, and it can be painful. That's all very self-limiting, and with the competition from virtually every other form of recreation- from skateboarding to drone racing- it's no surprise people choose something that doesn't leave sore welts, and stains the seats in their $60K car.

Biggest thing that could help us right now, is for the US economy to pick back up. Problem there is, in my opinion, no matter who gets in next year, I have pretty much zero confidence we're going to see any significant- or possibly even just measurable- improvement for several more years.

Doc.

**pillage** · 05-12-2024, 09:45 AM

A non chaffing, breathable, comfortable cup, with built in jock cooler.

**pillage** · 05-12-2024, 02:52 PM

Famous last words of many young guys playing paintball," Real Men don't wear cups to play." Usually right before the evil-bitch of Karma, personally guides a shot to their junk. Having protection from that, while being comfortably cool would be sweet. Power Armor of the gods.....

**DocsMachine** · 05-12-2024, 04:44 PM

And our product sucks.

-It doesn't "suck", it's just of limited appeal.

Things like Baseball, Football and Basketball have history and support. They're heavily promoted and subsidized in schools (who have courts and fields built in- it's a rare school that doesn't have a basketball court and a football field) heavily advertised, and of course seen as good and wholesome. The Superbowl is the world's most popular sporting event, baseball is seen as quintessentially American, etc.

Paintball, on the other hand, has zero promotion, it's not something the schools provide for the kids like they do basketball courts or football fields, it uses guns (ew, icky poo!) and it can be painful to play. Of course not everyone is going to enjoy it.

I agree that widespread advertising- especially on any budget this industry could scrape together- is going to be of very limited effect. But as far as a 'grow the sport' effect, it'll be a lot better than just coming out with some new niche-market product.

Doc.

**vijil** · 05-12-2024, 05:50 PM

Gonna add one:

Regular paint costs about $50 a case.

FS costs about $600 for a case equivalent.

I'd pay $150-200 a case for ultra premium roundball.

Perfectly round, minimal variation, seamless, consistent, no dimples, long shelf life, breaks on target and lasts in a magfed. You wouldn't use this for speedball as it would be overkill, but for magfed, totally worth it.

Remember hydrotec? Mm. Bring that back. I think they had an issue with low weight though - lighter balls are not good.

**The Hobbit** · 05-12-2024, 06:58 PM

As for mine “product” I’d go a slightly different.

id do a scaleable and easily built youth league, for the sake of the example X-ball format. The goal would be less so a one off league but a framework and resource center for any one to utilize to start a league. IE I want to start a local team, I can reach out to receive access to insurance, field supplies, discounted starter bundles for players???, etc.

Start with a U8 league that is mech only and 220fps and a scaled down field. Then instead of being tournament focused, shoot for weekly games between local teams (being optimistic that multiple teams would start to pop up within reasonable distance). Then do U10-U18 or wherever it makes sense to quit.

I see it as a value minded league, parents see their kids competing more frequently than I imagine current teams do. It becomes a sport that kids can get involved in and grow within, starting at the age where kids usually start sports. The key would be finding a framework that does allow this to happen independently of existing fields, at least where existing fields don’t readily exist.

**Archdogg** · 05-12-2024, 07:26 PM

1 Over priced headbands
2 ill fitting joggers
3 cheap pods where the lids fall off as soon as you touch them
4 some magfed gimmick that doesn't work right
5 paint that is .665 in size but marketed as 5 star plus paint
This is the stuff everyone on Facebook seems to keep buying and complaining about

**Magmoormaster** · 05-12-2024, 07:50 PM

My "product" would be a field. By my estimation, a big part of the problem with the sport stems from inadequacies at the field level. Most fields are run by people passionate about the sport, with little business sense and even less capital. I know people who have big ideas, things that will help grow the sport, but no money to get it off the ground. And then, oftentimes there are good ideas by people who have the business sense, but no paintball knowledge, and they always shoot themselves in the foot by not implementing the right equipment and/or bailing when they start to lose momentum.

So we start with a large field complex. This will have high quality, well maintained airball fields, medium sized rec fields with interesting props, and at least one or two full woods fields. The fields would be cleaned regularly, and built of high quality long lasting materials (no plywood or OSB bunkers caked with 8 years of paint). A lot of attention would be devoted to the staging area; it needs to be clean, needs high quality furniture, lots of shade, etc. There needs to be a "backstage" that hides all the messy aspects of the field; none of the "junk" like maintenance equipment, old bunkers, construction cutoffs, etc, should be visible to the public. Rentals would be emeks, maybe with unique bodies made for the field, with etha 3s available as an upgrade. Masks would be mid level masks with thermal lenses. Refs would be high paid professionals, people with years of experience in the game who are there because they want to be involved, but are paid enough for it to be worth their time. There will be one or two experienced techs at the field. There would be a small proshop equipped with smaller items like gloves, batteries, swabs, etc. And lastly, the field would have a dedicated snack bar with high quality offerings. Games would run from 8-9 thru until 4-5, so multiple groups could cycle in and out throughout the day. The field would offer subscriptions, where you could pay a recurring fee that would include things like your entry fee, discount on paint, etc. And there would be weekday events, like youth leagues, clinics, etc, as well as midweek games. There would be different groups, IE pump, mech, magfed, etc, that would all have a dedicated week where they can have their own games. But ultimately the field would run multiple groups at once; beginners (rentals and new players), advanced (regular walk-on/rec players), and competitive.

Moving out from there, there should be feeder programs that push people to the field. There used to be a business near me called Battleball, which was basically a lasertag/paintball hybrid. They had paintball guns loaded with lightweight foam balls chrono'd really low, in a lasertag type arena. You'd wear vests that record hits. It was a cool concept, poorly executed. They used 98s with CO2, they kept breaking and they had no one on staff who knew how to repair them. So, I'd sprinkle the area with a few locations offering this experience. But it would be run by the same company as the field, meaning it would have a maintenance support structure for the fleet of guns, and an overarching understanding of the game and what makes it good. Gear selection would help as well. Similar to the field, it would be staffed by a group of enthusiastic, well spoken staff that knows the game. This is basically targeting the "experience" crowd, the one that made escape rooms and ax throwing places popular. But again, it would be designed and built to a high quality. These locations could be in malls, entertainment districts, community centers, etc.

Lastly, there would be a network of pro shops sprinkled around the area. Again, they would be really high quality. Most paintball stores are kinda dingy; they never have the budget to use nice fixtures or finishes. They need to feel like walking into a high end clothing store, or an exotic car dealer. Again, staffed by people who love the industry and know it well, but are older and experienced enough to be a real professional face. High end finishes, lighting, etc. The store would work in network with the field and experience centers in regards to maintenance, training, and sales. They'd all work in unison to market each other.

And there would be a concerted marketing campaign that pushes each of the three parts. The experience centers would draw people in and push them to the field, and the field would push people to the store. The stores would also push people to the other locations.

There are enough good products in paintball that I don't want to get involved in gear. It's the infrastructure at the local level that needs to be improved. That's the product that will make the biggest impact.

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You've been asked to start a paintball company. What are your first 5 products?

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