Curse of the Tiny Balls

[iamthelazerviking]

Last time I was out I was using the best the field had to offer. GI 4 Star which is supposed to be this high end "tournament" paint.

Not only was every bag sweaty (thankfully I have a Squirrel Sack) it was mostly oval shaped. I was using an Emek with a 685 CP one piece so whatever. But I tried to size it later and everything was falling through a .676 Lapco breech sizer...I have used small paint before but not this small!

At what point is paint so small, that attempting to under bore or even "bore match" with a closed bolt is just tragically useless. We do have a handful of sub-675 options, but on the flip side is it really worth throwing more money at?

My super duper pump project isn't done and I doubt I'll play again until it's cooler, but if this happens again I'm thinking just throwing in detent fingers or the old tape trick will just have to do.

[MrKittyCatMeowFace]

Electrical tape is your friend again now. .

Otherwise yeah it's rare to see paint that actually is .68 caliber. If it ain't small, it's egg shaped, or dimpled like a golf ball.

[iamthelazerviking]

Months ago the Empire Premium was decently round and in the 82-85 area, wasn't too bad. But I don't think I have ever used GI that was good.

[Jonnydread]

Unless the paint is weirdly large or I am underboring like a bastard I always recommend finger detents.

In my experience a mid-bore barrel with detents/finger detents is one of the most forgiving and usable setups.

[Daniel Tiger]

Where are you getting your finger detents?

[Jonnydread]

Daniel Tiger I get them from Red Leader since Freedummy ascended to the aether.

Here's the thread: https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...barrel-detents

[Chappy]

Araphel makes them too

[pintbuster]

Freedummy detents, and get closer. I am done spending money to try to fix shitty paint.

[iamthelazerviking]

Yeah, I am there myself at this point.

[TinCan1154]

So… as crazy as it sounds, Amazon has Valken Infinity or Graffiti available via prime 1-day. I bought a case of Graffiti, arrived a day later with no damage (amazing). While the balls are small (.679), man they shoot straight.

The GI paint 4-star I shot the other week was pretty awful.

[Daniel Tiger]

At what point do they start marketing inserts for your inserts

[iamthelazerviking]

Daniel Tiger 8.6952546" scientifically step-bored control bore!!!

[Daniel Tiger]

iamthelazerviking, if we do this right we can sell inserts for the barrel front as well… different insert every 2 inches. Each one like .001 larger. Imma be a millionaire

[iamthelazerviking]

Different insert for every 2 inches, I'm dying 😂😂😂

[JeeperCreeper]

Dang, am I gonna have to make smaller than .670 inserts? 😆

[binson]

Soon they'll be making it .62 and we can use our SMG60s

[JeepDVLZ45]

I played with GI (think it was 4 star) a few weeks ago. Same issue. Roll outs with my 0.675 back, significantly egg shaped and had a few dimples for good measure. They also went soft pretty quick, even after running the bag through my squirrel sack.

I was running my single shot. I’ll probably just have JeeperCreeper add a detent to it for me and stick to a slight overbore.

Time to start buying up the SMG-60s…paint will be 0.62 before we know it!

[iamthelazerviking]

I played with GI (think it was 4 star) a few weeks ago. Same issue. Roll outs with my 0.675 back, significantly egg shaped and had a few dimples for good measure. They also went soft pretty quick, even after running the bag through my squirrel sack.

Yep!!! People will say that it's not the paint's fault, it's how it gets stored. Sure, maybe. But also to this "high end tournament" paint isn't meant to sit and be stored (improperly) which I get, so in that case WTF is the point if it's not better than thr cheaper stuff?

Unless BYOP is a thing, if fields can't store paint properly during the hot/humid months then I'll just wait untill it's cooler. I hate playing in 80+ degrees anyway.

[TF_Aloha]

The "It's not the paint's fault" people can't explain undersized paint. Rubbery and misshapen? Sure, bad storage could do that, but not undersized. Paint stored in humid environments swells, it doesn't shrink. Undersized paint is just paint companies that got too big pinching pennies on ingredients.

Also, the storage thing? It's the paint companies fault too. Paint is a highly perishable product. If any company gave a crap about players, they'd take the simple step of stamping a date on the box. They'd put cheap humidity indicators on boxes of high-end paint so that players could know before they purchase it that the paint might not be in great condition. Paint companies collaborate with bad fields though, and they ensure that players can't make an informed decision.

[iamthelazerviking]

This also has lead me to giving up on sizers or inserts or different backs etc. A one piece plus 33+ electrical tape or detent fingers FTW. Already have CP's but thinking a 15" spiral ported DW Null would be fun.

[RedLeaderSB]

I am a big fan of the detent solution, and always use it on snipers. Unfortunately not all Nelson based guns can use them.
I also made a tool to put dimples in .675 freak inserts. Haven’t used it much yet.

[cougar20th]

Small paint is entirely the reason I'm having my Kp3 rebarreled to accept freak xl inserts. I am entirely done with not being able to use the gun due to my paintballs being to small.

Also picked up one of each length 670 insert from JeeperCreeper.

[JeeperCreeper]

Personally I love both Freak and detent. I overbore, but not so much that I'm wasting air. Since paint is just all over the map these days, having a single .689 barrel just won't do. A proper detent should work with any paint, and never drop a ball. I'm not a fan of wedgits, because they are harder on paint than a rubber nubbin, or cocker ball detent, or even the printed finger detent rings. Wedgits are either too much dent and they will break anything that's not tiny, or not enough dent and paint rolls through.

I feel like most of this doesn't apply to open bolt space guns.

[iamthelazerviking]

The new owners of the field I frequent are awesome. I messaged one of them explaining the paint sucked and suggested Graffiti since I know they carried it before. He has it ordered to have for sale by next weekend and said they should still be able to keep carrying it unless something changes. SUPER COOL. Just feel bad I won't be able to make it out there again for a little while.

[Daniel Tiger]

Problem with graffiti is that it has the mag friendly thick shell and seems to bounce more than it used to

[JeeperCreeper]

I feel like graffiti is pretty consistently mediocre. Never great, hardly ever bad. Just mid grade.

[JeepDVLZ45]

Probably not the most popular opinion, but I always default to Grafitti. Not the best paints , but it’s always been VERY consistent for me. I’ve never had to run a back smaller than a .681 back, and typically just run my .684 with no issues.

Yes it tends to bounce on longer shots (just gotta get closer), BUT it’ll also punch through leaves, tall grass ans branches in the woods.

[Magmoormaster]

Valken is so consistent because its manufacturing process is 100% automated; the first person to touch them is you when you open the bag. The cardboard inserts and the silica packs help too. I agree, never the best but it's almost always the same every time you buy it. Little hard for my taste like others have said.

I Actually really like HK Army paint. Killer margins and generally above average quality for the price. Way better than GI, in any case. And while I usually never took my .675 out of my freak kit, I also never really checked. When I did, it was above .680.

GI is really good when they make sure it is. The 5 Star I shot back in 2019 at NXL Vegas was some of, if not the, best paint I ever shot. But it never ages well.

Also, what's a squirrel bag?

[Magmoormaster]

That is mostly true, especially about Graffiti. The height they were able to stack on pallets (which I admit I forgot about) was really nice. But like I said, it and the silica packs helped keep it in good shape. There isn't any weight from other bags pushing into/onto them. Now, I don't think I ever shot Valken's Chinese stuff, but their Korean stuff was always middle-high quality. Redemption, back when they made it, was fantastic. It wasn't quite a tournament ball but it was just below that.

HK Army paint, on the other hand, started overseas but very quickly moved to Mexico and/or southern California. Most of it was made by APX, even as far back as 2018.

Supposedly ProShar is really good too, but I've never had the privilege to shoot it. It's obviously made overseas, they manage to ship it here and keep it fresh.

[iamthelazerviking]

Also heard Pro Shar is good, Russian made I think. A couple different kinds show as in stock from Infamous.

[TF_Aloha]

HK Army is still mostly Chinese. You can see their shipments online here:

https://www.importgenius.com/importers/hk-army-inc

They just received a container with 3520 cases from "Jining Geoward Sports Co. Inc." in China a few weeks ago.

I saw someone that seemed connected to HK on Reddit state that their high end stuff is from Recoil in Mexico, but their lower end is always from China.