Idea for reproducing long lost parts

[Spaghetti Overdrive]

Lately I've been getting quotes from industrial CT services for my own personal projects when it struck me that maybe there's value in crowdsourcing and then open sourcing CAD files hewn from CT scanned parts.

Initially, my own goal was to justify the cost through reproducing, marketing, and selling things, but if enough people are interested in just having access to CAD files shared publicly for anyone to reproduce at all, the cost per person would be negligible enough to where it wouldn't have to be such a big undertaking to bring things back.

It seems like the general rate is in the $800-1500ish per part. Sometimes more if it's multiple or more complicated parts and assemblies, and less if it's simpler.

Some things to note is that you can also get material composition with these scans, so if for example someone used a certain type of metal alloy for a certain type of spring for a valve or regulator, that information would be uncovered with the specs of the rest of the item.



Would folks be into trying to pull something like this off for interesting but hard to source things that cost too much these days? It could be like a seasonal or annual poll that whittles down to 1 or 2 items at a time, and then folks could have access to the CAD files to share with whatever machinist they want to have the item remade for them.

[DocsMachine]

First and foremost, it'll be little more than a labor of love. If you're going to do it just for the love of the game, go for it!

But you'll be lucky to even knock on the door of breaking even, and it's more likely that your dog will cough up a Rolex than you actually make a profit at it.

I'm not saying that to be a downer- I'm saying at a realist who has lived it. Over in the Airsmith section, I posted that I'd just molded up some more bumpers for my Montneel rebuild kits. The cost of the polyurethane mixes I used- to say nothing of the time, which thankfully wasn't a lot- means I'll basically make no profit off of those kits. If I sell all of them- which by previous experience, will take about five years- by the end I'll probably have cleared forty bucks.

I made those simply to help enthusiasts keep cool old markers on the field.

In the case of some other part, you'll have the cost of having the part scanned, the cost (even if just in time) of converting that scan to a CAD model, and then the CAD model into a toolpath, and then the nontrivial cost of having a shop manufacture it.

AND... trust me when I say that, if you're not having a LOT of them machined- as in thousands- the per-part cost will be untenable.

Now, that's different if you're having something 3D printed, of course, but there's a limit to what on a paintball gun can be reliably printed, and survive for long in use.

An alternative is 3D scanning. I have a small 3D scanner that I've been playing with, and it works surprisingly well. My per-scan cost ranges around a 20-ouncer of Dew. A little more if you want a model, but given my backlog, I'd be happy to scan and send you the raw files for you to play with.

But while that'd help the overall cost, if it's something that needs to be machined, there will always be fixed costs for that, and it'll be a question of being able to sell enough to justify those costs.

Doc.

[Spaghetti Overdrive]

So here's the thing I have been mathing out between 3d scans and CT scans.

CT scanning will get perfect dimensions on everything, including all of the internal milling, which I feel like is the hardest part to get right. With a CT scan, you know that the output, if made to spec, will fit just like the source material. This would be really nice for more intricately milled things, like demonic cocker bodies, CCM slider or hinge frames, impact ir3 bodies, etc.

Another thing for me that makes the CT scans worth it (from what I understand) - I both work and go to school full time (again, sigh), so CAD work is so far on the backburner that I may as well forget about this idea for another decade. Because of that, there is a much higher $$ value to me to have that effectively sorted out in one fell swoop.

The tool pathing is something I haven't thought about, though. I need to spend more time reading before I say something I'll regret.

[DocsMachine]

Again, I didn't say "don't do it", I'm just pointing out it's not exactly the path to fame and riches and all that.

Doc.

[Spaghetti Overdrive]

Totally, this is absolutely love of the game with a side of "how do I not go underwater". I'm not looking to strike it, just to get more of what I want to see out there without being financially reckless about it.

[Ecapnation]

Here's my glib take....

Nostalgia is nice but will never pay the bills.

I work in an environment where any given day I have both software and hardware to fabricate anything i could ever want for paintball.

Why don't I do limited runs of items you may ask?

Non paintball customers simply pay way more. I've backed out of doing several paintball industry projects because I've had architectural clients occupy machines with jobs requiring +/- 1/32 (yes fractional brick tolerance) at $300 hr vs paintball companies that want +/-.005 at $50 hr.

[Spaghetti Overdrive]

That's my dilemma - I just don't have the time or resources to develop skills and assets to a point where I could collect on those types of contracts, and I don't see this as a business aspiration.

If I were to come to a machinist that wasn't in paintball, I'd need to come with a complete file and list of materials. If I were to come to a paintball machinist, it would be that much more expensive due to the expertise they'd have in the space, and moreso if I were asking them to figure it out for me. In both scenarios, it's prohibitively expensive to reproduce niche parts that would only sell like, maybe 50 units over the course of x years, as someone who lacks the skill and machinery.

This definitely me trying to find an economically conscious approach to my love of the game and not looking to forge a business out of. I just want more of the things that collectors and flippers are inflating the prices of to unattainable levels to help bring prices down, score some pieces in the process, and stay above water. My primary career path is medical and that's where I would want to focus my bill paying energies.

[Ecapnation]

That's also part of the issue with a lot of the decent parts in paintball, the market is limited but so is the quantity of pieces. Is also very fickle, I wish I honestly cracked things better than I used to but with me sort of fading out of selling paintball stuff lately I've got a little lax. But even if you look at the Sheridan's they were super hot a few years ago and the market was very high on them but now you struggle to sell basic ones even for a hundred bucks the same as with Palmers few years ago you couldn't touch the typhoon for less than 500 fast forward to today with the company basically folding half that is more realistic.

As someone who's been around this game we're almost his entire life my father had played before I was born a lot of the things that sell for a good amount of money weren't popular to begin with but have a rather significant fan base. Let's take for example the dye single trigger swing frame. As someone who had a dealer account there was a point when they were unable to give those away at wholesale. I remember getting a flyer from them stating that they were selling them for $40 each. Now I would be crazy to sell one for anything below $350. Hundreds of those went to scrap maybe even thousands.

I also know for a fact that when smart parts was gearing up for the sft shocker they were making room in their warehouse and two pallets worth of evolution autococker pieces went to the scrap yard they weren't selling nobody wanted them and something had to be done. Now they are hot commodity in the cocker market which I don't understand because at one point you can buy them wholesale the same cost of a brand new pro stock.

[Spaghetti Overdrive]

Ugh, such is always the case, and I agree that the hype waves definitely ebb and flow like you said. Though with each wave, the float shrinks more and more, and every time something has its resurgence in popularity, things ultimately get more expensive and harder to come by.

Realistically, digitizing everything would make it much easier for the community to go "hey, we like this. we all want this. we can afford to have new ones of these made to a quantity and cost that seems reasonable to us. I don't really care about flippers and top dollaring things, but I totally get how certain things just don't carry like they "should" and the huge losses that manufacturers see in dead stock becomes a sort of self fulfilling case study why said thing should never exist again, which IMO is just the challenge of managing the cross between supply, demand, storage space, tooling costs and opportunity costs, etc.

I don't think it makes sense to just mass produce like crazy anymore, but I think a world in which people can basically shapeways their way into something nice, or people just do limited runs from time to time, would be nice to live in.

[steed]

So I'll offer my professional opinion to help with not crushing your hopes and dreams. In crude terms, think of it as a lovely lady taking a seat on your smile. A little bit is a heavenly desire but much longer things become dire.
There are 2 concerns, input and output. Your CAD files or engineered parts from a designer or 3D scanned and finished can be a labor of love or small investment. Getting the tooling programmed for them is also another expense but can happen on your end or the suppliers. The heart attack is the output. You can get a part or a few parts made for a reasonable cost, we're talking sub gross levels, probably around or below a baker's dozen, but you're supplying all of the design and engineering. Size doesn't really matter as long as tolerances aren't in the aerospace range which only a valve would really get to that territory. Going over that, where multiple pieces of stock are need or tool changes is where this gets a few zeroes added to the end of your cost. Since most of this stuff is made from aluminum or even brass you won't run into upcharging for tooling. Now you can also look at 3D printing. Glass reinforced and carbon fiber printing is more accessible making certain parts available for printing and some fab places are doing metal prints. For niche parts, you're best bet is an on demand style model. No one should need these parts fast and the end user could stand to do some finishing on their own, a bit of DIY or providing finishing services for a cost. To go a bit deeper, small CNC machines are becoming affordable. Again, mass or batch production is unrealistic but if you can deliver new parts made to order, you have a hobby that generates an income, that's the tax form you need to look into. And get an accountant so you can write all this stuff off, my aunt and uncle did this for an antique business they used to run, wrote off trips, purchases...

[Spaghetti Overdrive]

I appreciate this insight a lot - it helps guide me through my own research as an amateur so I'm not as ignorant before committing to the bit.

We have an incredibly good family cpa thank god, but I'm not savvy enough to have been aware of the hidden costs associated with tooling.

I'm going to set some time aside to ask my machinist friends in the coming weeks about these things so I've got a better idea without talking out my tooter on this.

If anything else comes to mind, please don't hesitate to share it. I do actually look everything up that folks are mentioning and accept if at the end of this discovery process it really does turn out to be prohibitive, but I'm just committed to turning over every stone I can first.