Renters vs self equips - the old problem

[P.I.C.T. Tactical]

I love this forum. Thanks guys, all good ideas and suggestions.

[wunderbarsafari]

Of the two fields that I regularly play at, the one that does the best at separating skill does a few things well:

1) Sell private parties harder for small kids and birthdays
2) Have air ball fields for “speedballers”
3) Staff enough refs to run multiple walk-on groups
4) Teams are split EVERY time a new game goes out. Players can opt in or out if they don’t like the group or field and just line up for the next game at a different field.

[Cdn_Cuda]

Number 4 is a huge one. Balance the teams depending on who is in and who is out. Make it much more fair, especially if the owners are good about it and have no problem bouncing from team to team to ensure the games are fair.

[cellophane]

At my local field, they mix everyone but make sure to split up the self equipped evenly between sides. So they don't allow the "tournament" (and I'm using that very loosely) guys stay together and shoot up renters for practice.

I see a lot of this going on at my local field. When/If the tournament players go out with rec players the refs tend to split them up pretty fairly unless the rec players state that they want to stick together and/or play against the tournament players specifically (5 v 20 type games.) When I go out with rec players I will try and use it as a practice scenario and work on snap shooting (e.g. one-ball shots) or stay in the back and play conservatively. If I find myself against another tourney player they are fair game for ramping, but against a walk-on I will try and snap them out. I will also try and set my marker to the 5.5 rule if I can to help minimize blasting people. The alternative is I'm using a pump, and then I will play aggressively but I'm using a pump, so fire by volume isn't really an option.

[cellophane]

what's AT?

[BenoitOWN]

Autotrigger’ing

[cellophane]

ohhh. I've never used one so I can't say for certain but in general, no.

[Number six]

Back when, Camp Pendleton had Walk-ons and Advanced walk-ons. Your equipment could get you placed in the Advanced category, regardless of experience. Also, as I found out, your experience could get you placed in the Advanced category, even when rocking a mech Spyder.
Looking back, I really liked that system.

[shadow191]

The field I go to is the busiest in the area and it's almost all renters so the owner knows he has to keep them coming back so they really try to make it as least intimidating as they can. Plus he's actually a former pro and executive at PSP + NPPL so he doesn't have a lot of tolerance for overshooting birthday parties. Once in a while he'll throw all the self equipped guys together but then a lot of them will start sitting out because it's a lot harder when people are shooting back and they can't feed their egos.

I see a lot of this going on at my local field. When/If the tournament players go out with rec players the refs tend to split them up pretty fairly unless the rec players state that they want to stick together and/or play against the tournament players specifically (5 v 20 type games.) When I go out with rec players I will try and use it as a practice scenario and work on snap shooting (e.g. one-ball shots) or stay in the back and play conservatively. If I find myself against another tourney player they are fair game for ramping, but against a walk-on I will try and snap them out. I will also try and set my marker to the 5.5 rule if I can to help minimize blasting people. The alternative is I'm using a pump, and then I will play aggressively but I'm using a pump, so fire by volume isn't really an option.

[ChoSanJuan]

IMO 10.5 is still too much for electro vs ‘beat up tippy’s.

True... It is a bit hot. Here, more are good with trigger control than others. Also, most of the local kids can't hit close to 7 without ramping since they never grew up with uncapped semi. So that's the great equalizer for that part of it. lol

[P.I.C.T. Tactical]

Well if all the self equips used pumps that would largely solve itself but it is a complex problem.

[Meleager7]

Field design can play a huge part. Create dense cover at close quarters in the middle to encourage good players to move up to the front and engage each other, but create larger bunker spacings at the rear, with cutout windows to shoot out of. Those rear positions are easily defended, and if the renters are using the windows, they'll tend to get hit on the gun or mask, which isn't painful.

The other thing I'd recommend is limiting paint carried onto the field, or increasing paint prices. That formula has worked great at the Canadian fields I've played at.

I really like the idea of field design with incorporating Newb Friendly bunkers\positions in mind. They are going to stay farther back, and keeping them alive longer is going to increase their chance of having fun!

Limiting paint for some of the games I'd be open to, like in everyone only gets 1 hopper for a short game. But not the whole day, as I kind of like my guns and want to shoot 'em as much as possible.

Your only point I disagree with is the higher paint prices. An average day of paintball in Canada is already approx. $60-$80 for a renter if they want to stay a full day, and shoot a decent amount. There are a lot of equally fun activities that cost much , much less. Making paintball even more expensive is just driving away repeat business. Let's be honest guys, the cost of entry to Airsoft equipment ownership is about the same, but they're killing us in terms of affordability when it comes to actually playing, with ammo at less $0.01 cents a round !!! If Gelly Ball (look up Australia Gel Ball Blasters) ever gains ground in US\Can , their ammo makes Airsoft bb's look expensive!!!

[Meleager7]

I think the best solution you'll ever get to this issue of keeping it fun for the Renters\New Players is actually going to be a combination of good field management, good reffing, and Gun Owners who are conscientious about their playing with new players on the field. The field owners and staff can't solve this on their own. Nor can the gun owners take full responsibility.

Good Refs should be trying to split teams as evenly as possible. They should also be paying attention if a team is still getting dominated, they should be rebalancing throughout the day. That might mean a full reshuffle of the teams , or bumping up the numbers of the losing team, or shifting better players there, etc.

Guns Owners that play with renters really need to do their part here too, like you all suggested, limiting your space gun rate of fire , switch to a mech gun, rent a gun , only hunt other gun owners, play naked, etc. are all fantastic ideas! For the gun owners this doesn't appeal to, there is always the speedball field.....

If you're lucky and the ducks all line up it can be a really fun day for these mixed groups of renters and owners!

[XEMON]

It's definitely a problem everyone should be working on together ...
I love playing with new player, I only play with 10rd feed when there is new player and stock class when there is rentals on the field.

There is some cool ideas, like special bunker that self equiped/space dildos can't use.

When everyone is careful and are there to have fun (and not to boost ego/"squash noobs") it's a lot of fun for everyone ...

[Meleager7]

#SpaceDildoFreeZones !

[Chuck E Ducky]

A good well trained ref and Regular players that respect the game can help a lot.

You will always have “those players” the cheaters the people who can’t control there trigger finger. The worst is when they bring bad habits from other fields to a well run field. Young kids with new equipment are ruthless at times.

A good well trained ref will instantly notice problem players and address it early. Hopefully before it runes someone’s day. Good regulars will step up “hay man maybe take it easy today we got a lot of new players out today” if not they can always humble them. 2 things will happen. They slow it down or don’t come back either way the field wins.

Fields are only as good as the clientele they keep. It’s difficult for a field to find a happy medium between selling paint and keeping new players happy. Maybe offer better paint and charge more for it. This will reduce how much people shoot. Anything over 5 bps on a rec field is overkill. The game is actually more fun the slower it’s played.

Give them good masks give them good rentals and protect them from people who are just strait up Dbags. Caping the ROF on your rental group and separating them is a great way to reduce this.

It’s important to remember as a field owner you are selling an experience. New Players will look at your bottom line price. But after they are there the thing that keeps them coming back is the experience. The more you can cater to that the more you will see coming back every weekend.

[Cdn_Cuda]

I've had pretty good experiences playing walk-on as an owner but my friends and I always make sure things are fair between teams. If one teams massacres another team, switch over to the defeated team. It usually makes the renters very happy to have you switch to their side and they feel better going into the game even if they just lost. I used to play decently regularly with my brother-in-law and we're almost always ended up on opposite teams. It's when a group of owners won't split up there is an issue and fields shouldn't tolerate that as it's the only times I've had games that are completely unfair.

[flyweightnate]

I've found a field that divides teams and spaces cover well, mitigating the issue. The only field where it's really rough is in the woods, where volume just slaughters movement. There's simply not that much cover.

I love the idea of gravity hoppers... but it's really frustrating when that super smooth spoolie can't keep the balls shaking. Handling out red or blue Primo hoppers to select teams could go a long way if there's a problem.

[XEMON]

I have played several games with rental only (I was the only self equipped) where i told everyone, "here is where i am going to go, and then move to this bunker and stay there".
I stay amd make the same move when the team switch sides (as to switch team). It worked out well and everyone seamed to have fun ...

[Diomedes]

I have long been a proponent of the idea that if you know what you're doing, and you're playing in an "open" walk-on game that includes renters and non-renters, you should be at some technological disadvantage - hopperball, magfed, pump, stockclass, no batteries, etc. Any or all of the above. It's just common sense. The experienced players have all the advantages. Tech shouldn't be one of them.

Is that perfect? No. Would it help? Yes.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I agree 100%. But that is just not realistic. The majority of problem players purchased what they have specifically to do
exactly what the field is trying to protect new players from. Rec players buy electo to shoot more paint often before they learn respect for the game or what they are doing. The rest are just Douche bags.