Forgotten or underutilized paintball concepts.

[Fubarius]

Every so often my mind wanders to some concept that I feel the rest of the game has forgotten, or could utilize more in creative ways. Some technical, some not.


For example, a regulated CO2 tank. It would need to be a lower output reg, say 400psi, and need an anti-syphon tube of course, but in theory you could get near HPA consistency with the energy density of CO2. Filling could be an issue, a HPA fill nipple wouldn't work (you need to vent to chill to get a good fill, and the check valve on a fill nipple won't let you do that), and back filling through the reg "might" be doable, but a purpose built reg could be designed around this issue. This could be considered a "skipped over" concept, with free HPA fills becoming so ubiquitous that an improved gas source you have to pay for would seem irrelevant. Though I bet some of the mil-sim guys would appreciate a small 2" tank that gets like 400 shots instead of 150.

Next, the rimfire bolt. For those who aren't familiar with the idea, on a PGP pistol the air doesn't go through the bolt of the gun. The bolt has a flat face, and when its closed it seals off the breach of the barrel, and air enters the barrel up into the area between the face of the bolt and the curve of the ball. Take a semi with a bit longer bolt travel, make the bolt face a bit more conical to prevent stack clipping, and have the air blast come up into the side of said conical face. You can shorten the gun, or at least move the hopper back about an inch on any stacked tube design. On inline designs you can be a bit more creative with air passageways if you want. This is a design that I'm still shocked the blowback pistols back in the day completely ignored. Like they believed that the air HAD to pass through the bolt. A lot of those designs could have been a lot simpler.

Finally, Stock Class. Sure plenty of traditional SC setups out there, and I don't want that to go away, but that harkens back to a very specific time period, of 12 grams, 10 shots tubes, and horizontal feeds. But why not more classes for other time periods? Watched a video of a newer player influencer the other day, kind of ironically using a cheapy blowback he picked up on shopgoodwill.com, but the nice moderate PAK. PAK. PAK. of a mech blowback kind of brought be back to early 2000. A "man those were the days" feeling of a basic mech blowback, a 9oz CO2, and a pair of 100 round tubes on my belt. Semi Stock, or Stock 2k, or Blowback Stock. Something like that. (allow any hopper of course, chops suck) Could be a half dozen different variations out there.

[Fossilhead]

I had a female stabilizer with an anti siphon tank for a while on a few different setups.

It worked really well.

[Fubarius]

Oh I have a few as well. Even setup my old B2K electro to run 20oz anit-syphon, female stab, into male stab, and even had a Rock LPR on the thing. No shoot down, no spikes, super consistent, heck the tank didn't even get cold even at high rates of fire. The darn then felt almost efficient, which is something B2K's NEVER were.

[OpusX]

Woodsball capture the flag (not bunkers in the woods, just natural terrain). Old school shoot less sneak more. It has such a different feel to it and should be used more.

[The Jayster]

100%. Unfortunately, this set-up doesn't sell paint. Plus it does require very large fields.
I'm old enough to remember those type of genuine 'capture the flag' days. Best games ever.

[Fubarius]

One thing I've been rolling around in my head is somehow coming up with a business model for paintball that do NOT center around paint sales. Sort of like how air fill works these days, so paint is basically free, included in the entry fee, but then all the games, gear restrictions, even culture becomes about shooting as little paint as possible. No idea how to pull that off with out alienating existing players, so it's just a mental exercise.

[Fossilhead]

That'd be an entry fee to counter.

Sell the experience.

And snacks.

[$L!mBo]

there are plenty "Blowback Throwback" events.
i dont think there's enough of a concentration of interested folks with the specific gear to warrant a 'blowback class'.
i think youd be plenty happy attending/organizing a blowback throwback event and showing up with a small co2 tank and 100 tubes.
but imo, introducing new "classes" of paintball is pretty unecessary.
if youve absolutely gotta scratch that itch, id buy enough gear for 6 (3 man) setups and host an outlaw event.
semi related
ive outlined a ruleset for a "Classic Mech League" that always seems to divide folks. i dont think anybody disagrees that modern mech events are dominated by spacemechs and volume-shooting.
my ruleset aims to shift the focus back to skill and technique.

-autocockers and mags only
-single trigger only
-no r/t
-revvys only
-trigger pull limited to an established lbs/pull
(no hair trigger)
-4 pods+hopper per man per round

i always get a ton of complaints from the spacemech guys, but thats sort of the whole point. Its not for them. the early scene had finnicky gear, knowing your marker inside and out, being able to tune things on the fly. Completely different tactics, much more movement happening since "lane shooting" was much less effective.
Unless they want to shoot mags and cockers, i dont want the agglet dudes showing up ,trying to make something different back into boring, bend the rules, cheater-ball.

stock class is best class. assimilation is mandatory.

[Fubarius]

Translation: "I don't want any icky newb guns at my tourney"

You could have said "Any sear actuated mechanical semi auto" and be done with it. And yes, probably most of the guns would be autocockers (quite a few mag owners would be upset about having to uninstall their x-valve), but some people live in fear of being shot out by a Model98. Or they only want "serious" players, not a group of friends who treat a league as open play where people bother to keep score. Can't have that. I mean, people might SMILE while they play. The horror.

[$L!mBo]

is somebody a little upset?
nothing stopping you from coming up with your own set of rules.
"Hey guys, i cracked the plastic internals in my tippmann, whos got a spare? "
"uh we're all shooting mags and cockers"
that was my main point. but choose to be a victim if youd like.
also, youre totally right. i purposely designed those rules for zero fun and maximum unhappiness

[Cross-Country]

I like this a lot, but I just want to chime in that the Tippmann Pro/Am lineage would fit nicely into this, as well. They weren't and aren't what the Model 98 and its descendants turned into. They have (obnoxiously) heavy single triggers, no stock options for RTs, they're really the last holdout from old Fort Wayne Tippmann before they put out cast pot metal pieces of shit for the masses. Certainly not spacemechs, and I'll be the first to say I get annoyed when talking about mech play how the first thing people bring up is the Emek like that's in any way what we're talking about.

[Chemical-x.....ahain]

I had a female stabilizer with an anti siphon tank for a while on a few different setups.

It worked really well.

My first nasty typhoon had that setup and it was rock solid.

[Fossilhead]

Slick!
I had a 2k Blazer rocking the double stab setup with the cage.

Double vented brass.

That thing was super consistent. Had a few 12oz set up for it. Good length, lightweight.

[Fubarius]

there are plenty "Blowback Throwback" events.
i dont think there's enough of a concentration of interested folks with the specific gear to warrant a 'blowback class'.

Ah, the thing is if something is Named then it becomes, well, legitimate.

Stock Class pump, if it wasn't named and given a rule set, it would be, well, just pump with a weird out of date feed and air setup. All the advantages that a person can claim about Stock Class, lighter setup, more maneuverability, etc, can apply equally well to any open class pump with a stick feed and a 13ci HPA. But at that point it's merely just some accessory choices. You don't HAVE to use a stick feed, you could use a 50 or 100 round hopper, or screw it, just throw a revi on the thing and be done. Long lines at the fill station today, it I'll put my 68ci tank on it.

But when it's Named, well then it sort of becomes it's own purpose. A guy with an old Nelspot or PGP showing up to open play isn't just some guy "using that old out of date gun he found in his Dad's shed", now he's playing Stock Class. No further justification needed. A gun with a horizontal feed and 12 grams can exist on it's own, instead of being something to be upgraded to or from. You drop $500 on a SC Phantom setup no one says "they make direct feed bodies for those, you should upgrade", or "why waist money on that? You could have gotten an Mini GS/Axe/Etha/etc." It's instead, "hey, nice stock class setup".

If I feel like putting my electro hose away for a day, and choose to leave my cocker in the case, and feel like grabbing my beautifully splashed annoed Alley Cat and keep my load out light, I don't want to spend half the day explaining why. It would be so much easier to say "running Semi Stock today" and be done with it.

And with a Name, and Legitimacy, then you get more interest. It's not gear for some newb who doesn't know better or can't afford more, it's a choice. A style. Something to "also" have in addition to a main load out.

[$L!mBo]

stock class is the original ruleset for tournament gear. its not just some name someone made up.
are the folks at your field like super elitist or something? ive never had to "spend half the day explaining why" or "justify" using a pump or stock class setup. your post makes it seem like theres some harshly judgmental regulars at your local.
does it really bother you that much to just say "im shooting a lightweight, semi setup." instead of making up some name and trying to get it to catch on?
"semi stock" bothers me way more than it should lol. at that point, its not pump, 12g or stick feed.
nothing stock about it

[Fubarius]

One local field for a while banned player owned 3k HPA tanks. The reason? Allowing them attracted the "wrong kind of player". The place was seriously run by people who seemed to think if you weren't using the most top of the line gear then you should just be renting. That was the only two type of play they allowed on the field. Open play with rental gear only, or x-ball scrimmages where they require a 4.5k tank and APPA number, and they try to ban anything too newbish. Yeah, stopped going there when they did this. They've gotten better since. Oddly almost an overcorrection, they switched to "classic" rules for gear owner open play. That's mech or 5.5bps max for electros. Seems to be a popular format, since it has a name and all. Funny how that works. They still do everything they can to almost force people to rent though. So yeah, not my favorite place, and yeah, I'm a bit salty about it still.

And SC being a "tournament" rule is basically irrelevant. I have never attended, never even heard of a proper tournament with in hundreds of miles of me having a Stock Class division in 20 years. Even in open play, SC is really just used by pump players who want a little bit more challenge. No organized events for it at all around me, other than being included in the occasional Pump day. But people still do it, since it's a thing that exists. Got a name and everything.

[$L!mBo]

"ive never heard of it so it doesnt exist"
you realize stock class was the ONLY tournament format for years, right?
you seem fixated on "its all in the NAME"
Stock Class could be called "CutieHomoBall" and most of us would still show up.
but let's pretend youre right. why not just call your special style "Best, Most Fun, Awesome Class"

[SignOfZeta]

I don’t think there is anything “out of date” about a guy running constant air and ten round tubes. That setup had no era to speak of since constant air and hoppers came about at almost the same time and go hand in hand.

A gun with enough air to shoot 1100 rounds but it only holds ten…that’s a setup very very few people used for any length of time at all. I’m not saying it couldn’t be fun or practical it just won’t be competitive in any logically designed rule set so you’ll have to run it all on your own.

FWIW I literally have never played a game of paintball with a semi automatic gun and I only switched to HPA two years ago. I am the weirdo who knows every gun is fun as long as it works and that’s kind of my point. If you want to run weird stuff then just run it.

[$L!mBo]

Mod-Stock (we normally roll hpa tank + stock class feed) is a ton of fun and very popular with our outlaw games and the socal stock guys mixing in with the walkons
we run an event with this format in november that always has a great turnout

[JeeperCreeper]

I hosted a game last year called "Tubes N Tanks" specifically for 10 round feeds and CA. I'm probably going to host it again this year. Its my attempt to get local players into limited paint or stock class type games, while being more inclusive. Not everyone wants to buy, use, and dispose of 12g cartridges, and I also allowed any stick feeds, not just horizontal. We had fun, and that's all that should matter.

[$L!mBo]

woah woah woah there, big guy.
No Fun Allowed!



jk, totally agree! i contacted benji at pbdna and he hooked me up with a great discount on a big (30) buy of his printed feedcaps. i made loaner stick feeds with those and hardware store elbows+ pipe
a ton of folks paid me to keep theirs!

[FlightMedic938]

$L!mBo Why just Cockers and Mags? Wouldn’t throwing blowbacks in the mix make it more appealing? When I think classic I think of any mech made before 01’ a true classic.

[Fossilhead]

I'm not mad.

Just thinking about building a mag 😆

[Fubarius]

See, that's the confusing part. You say you won't turn someone down based on their gun choice, but make sure to explicitly ban them in the basic rules. So which is it? Are they allowed or not? If a field or event does not allow the gun I want to run that day, I DO NOT GO. Heck, I stopped going to a field when they wouldn't allow the air tank I felt like using.

And you seem to look down on "elitist" attitudes, and then spout a blatantly elitist opinions. A mag or cocker owner can't "relate" to a different gun owner? Seriously? Like their feelings will get hurt if someone dares spend less money than them? You seem to want to attract the wrong caliber of player. But then again elitism is a rather foreign concept to me, in the particular pre-electro years you're trying to emulate I was running my modified beyond belief Stingray II in the local tournaments. Probably wouldn't be legal in your league anyways, got that evil double trigger and a surprisingly light trigger job.

[FlightMedic938]

$L!mBo Not mad at all! I was curious. I had an 03 Sonic Cocker and it was a great marker but it’s just not something I think I’d be interested in owning again. I have a Crossover I’ve modded a lot and it’s mech only, would that count as an Automag lol?

My small black heart smiles when I light up the chubby McFatty shooting a $1.5k cocker that’s barely moved out of the starting area with a Walmart marker lol. Just joshin’ with you, mad respect for having your own tourneys and playing with and against what you love.

[Riot]

Goblins Only, do I hear Goblins only?

[JeeperCreeper]

We could play with PGP valves

[Riot]

JeeperCreeper - still yellow!!

[Fubarius]

Other underutilized concepts...

Sup'air ball bunkers. Not their use in general, but seriously, it's been the exact same field since like 2005. Row of doritoes on one side, snake on the other, 3 tall things in the back, a big thing in the middle, and a smattering of small thing in-between. Over and over and over again. I would LOVE to show up at a field and there wasn't a snake at all. Or the doritoes were anywhere else. Or there was a big wide lane right down the middle from dead box to dead box. Just something different. Or heck, instead of a mirrored symmetry, how about a rotational symmetry? Each side of the field would be exactly the same as the other from the payers point of view.

Also, air bunkers make absolutely wonderful objective markers and quick and dirty forts for woodsball. That left tape line a little sparce and more of a trap than a good path? Well now it's filled in and much stronger. Also, fun trick, stick a single small brick or aztec in the middle of an open clearing surrounded by good cover. Good woodball players will recognize it as a trap, but certain players will trip over each other trying to get to it. Quite funny to watch.

Or really any hybrid of field concepts. Most modern fields are disappointingly homogenous. The air ball field is only air ball bunkers. The hyperball field is only hyperball tubes. The urban field is only buildings and walls. Heck the barrel field has only barrels. Mix it up a little.

Also, don't be afraid to combine smaller fields. One local place used to occasionally drop the net between two air ball fields for 15+ on 15+ games. Corner to corner or 50 side to 50 side, didn't even have to rearrange the bunkers.

[JeepDVLZ45]

Airow Gun games…

[Fubarius]

I'm still seriously disappointed that they never got around to making a crossbow version of that thing.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Cross bow would need a completely different design to work.

[Fubarius]

A gun with enough air to shoot 1100 rounds but it only holds ten…that’s a setup very very few people used for any length of time at all. I’m not saying it couldn’t be fun or practical it just won’t be competitive in any logically designed rule set so you’ll have to run it all on your own.

Well, yeah, kind of half the fun to do your own thing. Though now that I ponder it, a gun of choice, pump, mech, electro, whatever, running an angled 10-15 shot stick feed, with an appropriately compact hpa tank in the usual spot, and a bandoleer of 10 round tubes, well that sounds all kinds of fun. Sort of a simulated Magfed if you think about it, with the frequent reloads. Heck, just claim the 10 round tubes are stripper clips, so you got a "Clip Fed" gun. 😉

[Pyrate Jim]

Many concepts were tried and forgotten because they didn't work as advertised.
Ever hear of a "Frogger"? Kept your mask from fogging up.
Air bladders in your shoes pumped air into your mask through tubes as you walked.
Supposed to, anyway.

[flyweightnate]

Ah, yes - that famously cool, dry foot air.

[The Jayster]

Here's a forgotten or under utilized paintball concept: GOOD REC PAINT

[Fubarius]

A lot of swing and a miss ideas in paintball sure do seem to be based around puffs of air. I remember some hopper that used an air line tapped into the side of a blowback, or spliced into one of an autocockers LP hoses, that used the air pulse to flip a small ramp inside of the hopper. Really just jostled the balls more than properly agitate them, so it fizzled into obscurity.

[MrBarraclough]

My broke 12/13 year old self tried redneck engineering my own version of that by drilling a small hole in my Indian Springs 200rd hopper and gluing some old aquarium tubing to it. Gave up when I couldn't keep the tube attached at the marker end as the air kept blowing it out.