The Slow And Unfortunate Death Spiral Of Stock-Class Paintball

[iamthelazerviking]

This video is a great example of pure stock class goodness, just chop it up and put some thrash metal over it and the kids will go wild. Check out his other vids, beautiful piece of property with cleanr air bunkers and up to 3v3 all with Phantoms. The dream.

https://youtu.be/UUCV_Mm7sjQ?is=iFgSJ5uu8BDRA_jg

[$L!mBo]

very cool but i just dont think its interesting enough to non-stockers to draw them in

[vijil]

Music videos with paintball clips don't work, if they ever did. Don't waste your time. And getting music rights is a pain if you want anything good or non AI. The clips you linked... honestly, look at their age and their view count. That stuff doesn't play any more.

A proper documentary style led by someone (preferably an outsider to SC) who presents really well is best option. Ideally you do the full length one and chop it up for short form clips across platforms.

[$L!mBo]

tik tok style hype doesnt have the longevity imho.
i havent listened to music with copyrights since middle school. ive been lucky (unlucky?) enough to live close enough to dc baltimore and nyc to personally know so many musicians, finding a band to PAY ME TO FEATURE THEM has never been and issue.
and i will die on this hill : the music will make or break your PR attempt.

[$L!mBo]

dude, no offense, but you live in New Zealand. different story over here (Here= where we host the scene in this particular discussion)
Love Kiwis btw

[AnarchicArctic]

Without getting too political…plenty of folks are struggling to pay for necessities. Gonna be real hard to lure people into a niche style of playtime hours from their home when they can barely afford gas to begin with. The youth we need to lay the foundation for the sport’s future is struggling to find jobs that pay a living wage. We don’t need social media, we need economic stimulus.

[$L!mBo]

this is all George Washington's fault and im TIRED of pretending otherwise!!!!

Riot for SUPREME LEADER
Chappy for sheriff

[Riot]

I respectfully decline, $L!mBo. Lol

[Nish]

Chappy. I think hes trying to demote you. Must be he heard about your traitorous ways.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I guess it’s hard for me to see it in a “death spiral” while we have 3 successful 2 day events in our area. Maybe it’s due to more opportunities to play Stock Class mixed with the cost of travel and food today.

While there are a lot of overlapping cross over player’s at Jim’s game. I see a lot of new faces and new players who can’t do the 8hr+ trip north to NH. It’s just not cost / time prohibitive. It’s not the cost of the game it’s the cost of time and travel to do so.

Doing a long road trip by yourself can be boring (I do a lot of podcasts) having someone to chat with definitely makes the trips more enjoyable and the time pass quickly. Carpooling definitely helps lower the cost of traveling. Dave and I have been traveling together down to Jim’s game every year. I look forward to the ride just as much as the game. This year’s topic was Led Zeppelin and sketchy gas stations.

Point is, don’t get caught up in the numbers. Focus on bringing like minded people together for a fun weekend and the rest will fall into place. It’s not going to grow every year. Some years will have a bigger turnout than others for various reasons. However the important thing is that people for a weekend, forget there troubles, let loose, socialize, and play some Good Old-fashioned Quality Paintball! That’s what people come for and that’s what keeps them coming back to the Games.

[$L!mBo]

IM JUSTA SMOL GUY!
death to hormesis by all means, but as soon as they post a "$15,000 first place 1v1" (literallly dropped to $500 as of this comment), theres a HOT "NEW" PAINTBALL SAVIOR! on the npc radar
meanwhile, COB 's craptastic plastic shenanigans at ganza are simultaneously the funnest and best measure of actual paintball skill ever experienced

[Chuck E Ducky]

I found triggers for the Splatmaster BTW. Still want to do 3D printed aluminum ones. But I bet we can get a bunch of them operational again. Got to talk to COB and get him to bring them Saturday.

[Melrosejedi]

Carpooling is the way. Time flies and is a great way to pass time. I too enjoy it chuck.

[Rainmaker]

There is an incredible amount of good input here.

OP took a lot of intentional time to put together his thoughts on the state of things, and very qualified to do so, having run these events so long. Really appreciate that.

I'd say we are talking about several different things here:
- Stock Class only events
- Stock Class regular play/weekend ball
- Stock Class collectorship

I admit, I really only fall into the collectorship category, as when I go out to play, it's only for events, and then I pretty much only choose mech semi as my go to marker. But I always have some kind of stock class setup or other, and I usually bring it with me.

Of those three categories (others might break it up differently, but I' going with it for now)

- Events are hard. Stock class only events kind of only appeals to people who already know it and want it, and are looking for an event to do it. Keeping them stock class only ends up counting me out. Not saying I'm proud of that, but when it comes to an event, I'm usually looking for something with a lot of players, where I can stay in play for a long time, and also something local (Ohio). If there were a stock class only event nearby, and it's with you guys, heck yeah count me in. But then it's more about the camaraderie.

- Stock class regular play is about building a local group, and being consistent. This is easier from a logistical sense I'm sure. But for me, life gets in the way most of the time and I'm not a very reliable player (sorry guys). I think though that THIS is the grassroots for making stock class events a success. You get a few local groups of 6 or 8 guys, who play semi regularly with each other, and they get pumped about going to an event together (i.e. the Expandables, Ragnastock, etc.). This level is going to be where you rope new guys in too.

- Stock class collections aren't going away anytime soon. There are tons of sick markers out there, and creative folks who are modding and doing cool stuff. I'll be exhibit A though of how collectors don't equal players (sorry again).

As far as some strategy to get more people interested in Stock Class, I don't think it happens by hyping up the stock class only events. 2 thoughts to consider:
- Build your local small groups and get consistent (as much as possible) playing stock class together
- Bring stock class into OTHER events in an intentional way: A stock class squad with a special mission objective, a stock class only bunker, a higher chrono limit for stock class players, cheaper 200 round bags for dedicated SC players, only-mask-hits-count on stock class players, i don't know just brainstorming. Make the other guys be like "man, those stock class perks make me want to switch"

I mean, imagine like a "Slim's Brigade" at Fulda or something. 30 guys with PGPs or Phantoms. Yeah we'd get overballed, it'd probably be a rough day. But it might help bring stock class to a higher place in the average players mind, instead of an afterthought. Stock class would get talked about around the campfire by non-SC players.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I like the SC big game idea Actually.

[vijil]

"imagine like a "Slim's Brigade" at Fulda or something"

I think that's the way, actually. At the very least it sends the message that it's not all about firepower, and that can only be good for paintball.

And make sure you're vlogging the whole thing

[$L!mBo]

so, we will
see you at Stocktober Fest, then?

[$L!mBo]

Fulda Gap and ION and screw it, EVERY modern "big/scenario" game are 10000000% cash grabs that you will be 10000000% disenchanted with 15mins in.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Ion is fun in its own way but shooting SC at ION I don’t think I have the patience.

[flyweightnate]

Something that's evident from this thread, if not obvious -

There are many different opinions and preferences within the stock class community. Different styles of play, opinions on social media, income levels, geographic regions, etc.

If an event or "team" can appeal to a wider group of players - including both woods and airball, short timed games and long haul CTF, small teams and large teams, even a willingness to use social media, etc. - it might be easier to find a critical mass. Living too far from either coast to make it to an event yet I can't say whether that's been done or if it's a single format, but I'm catching that there are several conflicting preferences, hopefully each less important than a desire to play some good ol' SC ball.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I feel like you just described paintball in general. It’s a mix mash of all kinds of people. Honestly that’s what makes it great.

Not going to lie a big game with a bunch of stock class Players would be a lot of fun.

I did see a guy at ION playing Stock Class one year spoke to him for a bit. Had to give him props for rocking the gear that he did because people will take 1-3 to the lens and still shoot back at that game. I learned quickly to buy the cheap paint because it hurts more. ION is fun to experience but that type of game play gets old quick.

OSG would be a great place for a bunch of SC players to meet up for a big game. There games are really well run and people play more honest then any other big game I have played before. It’s a great atmosphere and the fields are really good for that play style. They have a really good social media presence as well.

[Riot]

I know this may defeat the purpose, but I also feel there should be a broader focus on Pump paintball and not just Stock Class. I feel like if you can build pump as a whole, then stock class will come.

Slim’s Spring Open Class?
Slim’s Stocktoberfest ?

ehhhh.

[Slim]

No.

[Slim]

Again, I appreciate all the input here. However, I think it's important to clarify some things.

There is playing paintball with a stock-class marker, and there is stock-class paintball. These are two distinctly different things.

This post is about stock-class paintball. Meaning that I am specifically talking about games or events where all players are using the same type of stock-class equipment. I fully understand that I am addressing a very limited audience here.

As I have already stated, I also fully understand that the future of stock-class paintball is waning. And again, it's waning because there is no industry support. I have no delusions that is going to change in my lifetime.

When I say that stock-class paintball is in a "death spiral" I'm speaking specifically about stock-class events, and the recent drop in attendance of stock-class only events over the past year. If attendance continues to drop, then these events will end and stock-class paintball will go back to what it was pre-2010 - a handful of players getting together at renegade games. While I enjoyed the renegade events I ran from 2003 to 2010, (as well as the renegade games Splatttttt and Capital Dave hosted) I'd much rather work to preserve what we have now.

Because I am speaking to a limited audience, and because I am simply trying to boost attendance in a limited way to bump the numbers back to where they were (in order to compensate for the shit economy and player attrition) my goal is to leverage social media as effectively as possible. If you don't agree or want to help with this, that's fine.

If players want to use their stock-class markers at mainstream paintball games, that's entirely up to them. A handful of players using stock-class equipment at a big game and getting bonused-balled from head to toe by everyone else using electros will not result in non-SC players understanding the thrill, challenge or fun of stock-class paintball events. That's like showing up to the Indy 500 on a race horse and expecting race car drivers to understand what it's like to participate in the Kentucky Derby. Regardless, if this is something you're into, please leave my name out of it.

[vijil]

I think your attitude is self limiting.

You're going for perfect. As they say, "perfect is the enemy of good".

You're not going to be able to have bigger stock class events without growing the player base, and you won't grow the player base without being more visible. Being more visible requires putting up with imperfection, showing up at other events, etc.

Hell it might even mean making a vertical format video (shock horror) once in a while.

"I used the worst gun at the biggest paintball event" is honestly a killer piece of content. But if that's too zoomer for you, I can't help. I'm just a marketing manager, what do I know.

[Nish]

Out of curiosity Slim, are you going to other SC games and seeing the same decrease as at your games?

People running or attending other event that are SC or other. How is attendance? Simular drop?

Not being in the NE anymore i dont know these things anymore.

[Slim]

I attend the Ragnastock Summer Stockstice events in Agawam, MA and Capital Dave's Rhode Island Rumble events - when I don't have to drive my son across the east coast for his travel LAX tournaments. I missed Riot's Roll Out Game in CT in June and Stockstravaganza in Maryland last month because of travel LAX. For Stockstravaganza, I was only about an hour away that weekend.

Beyond lower attendance at my events, Aric at AG has said his numbers are lower than usual for the past couple of years. He attributes the weather as being a major factor - which it has been, but acknowledges the possible economic impact too. Attendance at Capital Dave's has been lower the past few years compared to some of the turnouts he had at the renegade games. Attendance at the Summer Stockstice events was actually growing a little the last two years. Unfortunately, the event wasn't held this year, but I believe Riot's event filled that void. I heard Roll Out was a success, but Riot did mention in this thread he saw numbers go down as well. Others mentioned paintball as a whole.

There was never a big push to really promote the Stockstice or Rhode Island events. Jesse was happy with the usual crowd and didn't see the need to promote like I do. I'd say that Capital Dave feels the same way. I've never attended a "Click, Clack, Boop!" event. but I'm betting they are in the same camp. I absolutely understand all the reasons why organizers would want to keep things simple, and be content with what they have. 100%. And I fully respect everyone's perspective in that regard.

There is a SC event coming up at Wasaga Beach Paintball in Ontario, Canada next Sunday. The event pricing made it seem like it might be a separate part of a big game? They only gave 2 weeks notice on FB and a month here on MCB. Short notice doesn't help attendance.

I can't speak to any events out west, and not sure how strict they are on allowing mixed equipment.

I know I obsess over attendance more than other organizers. Then again, I obsess over most of the details in my life. I haven't been diagnosed with OCD, but I probably should be. I've invested so much of myself into growing stock-class and these events over the years that I get focused on specifics that others wouldn't care about. Maybe I shouldn't? Maybe being that focused on the details is what helped my events grow or remain enjoyable? Who knows?

All I know is that the life-long friendships that have been forged, all the unforgettable memories that were made around (and in) the campfire, all of the cool venues we played at and all of the fun times that were enjoyed make the extra effort totally worth it. Given my passion for this ridiculous hobby, it's just a little tough for me not to be concerned about downward trends.

[Chaos]

I miss Fluff's Gravity League Tournaments and wish I would have participated in more of them when I had the chance,they were such fun events when I did. I for one would love to see something along those lines come back maybe in a strictly stock class format for some kind of prize even it is just something fun or silly for the prize. Events like that might bring in some of the tournament players and maybe even a sponsor or two if it was successful enough.

[Shane-O]

Slim
My opinion is that industry support has always been minimal for SC. Sure there were some high end guns available, but good old Phantom is still is here. There is plenty of availability in the secondary market, and still several good "Airsmiths" that can modify most guns if thats your thing, and many home builders and 3d printed stuff. When I played regularly, I couldnt afford a Carter, or a Gargoyle, but the Phantom was always affordable. Also in my opinion, WE support the industry, not the other way around. There isnt enough purchasing power for most businesses to build SC things for, making it super hard to make money at.

[cockerpunk]

niche forms of paintball will die as paintball slowly dies.