HI Siress, thanks for the detailed feedback. There's definitely room for optimizing the design for manufacturing. The trigger guard area started off following AR-15 prints to potentially use an off the shelf trigger guard and grip to would be readily available. With having to get a large slitting saw and collet in there that ended up changing but still follows a similar form factor.
For stabilizing the pump, my thought going into it was to have a slightly oversized hole for the pump arm to slide through so it acts as a stabilizer as well as the pump arm. I'm sure adding an additional guide and offsetting them like Hick suggested would definitely help.
Anchoring the trigger to the guide may be doable, just need to look at the install process. Right now the spring force on the trigger is about 4.5lbs.
The internals are currently all custom which would definitely put a dent in the budget. The more I think about it I'm probably going to start leaning toward using CCI internals and going to a breech drop . The key is getting the sear to work and have clearance through the tube during install. It would definitely be idea as the trigger and sear can be cut in the same process from a standard gauge material. I do like your idea of an internal o-ring on the valve cap; i'm sure that could drive up efficiency. Also agree on the bolt face o-ring.
Fortunately doing this design work is pretty much my job, I work as freelance engineer with a focus in product development, so a lot of time spent developing, prototyping, quoting, etc. Something like this where it's more of a personal project I'll start looking at how optimized I can get everything then start looking at places to save, simplify, etc. I actually did a fair amount of custom machine work on MCB around 2008 through 2012 I think, mostly phantom add-ons (I forget my old username), etc. Funny enough I pretty much got my start in design/engineering through paintball and MCB/UGMS.
So with something like this, if I can optimize it and prove out the design then I might look into doing a small run of 100 or so units. If I get it done using phantom internals where my main custom components are the body, valve body, trigger/sear and pump kit that may get the cost low enough to pursue it. Certainly the one piece body is the critical component of it all cost wise if I'm using CCI internals. Everything else can be done relatively cheaply with a decent price break at 100 units, it's not 10,000 units but going from 1 to 100 has a significant impact.
Well I wouldn't see this as a production marker (I don't think the market is there at the moment, hopefully that changes) I actually think your concept of doing a clamshell design is really interesting. With the orientation of everything in the model you could machine a barrel trunnion that has your auto cocker threads, ASA, pump guide mounts and pump arm guide in one relatively small aluminum block. Even have threads on top to be able to mount a stock class feed similar to Phantom. From there a simple slotted tube can serve as the internals bore with a valve fixed to the end and captured by a molded housing. All the critical components are rigidly mounted together and it's fit within a housing that covers internal airlines, etc. Or just have the lower half be plastic and the top of the tube/valve and trunnion are exposed. It would take some work but with investment in 1 or 2 injection molding tools it could be possible to have a pretty high quality pump gun that doesn't cost that much to manufacture. Now you got me thinking, a $200-300 marker with these features might actually be marketable... and then I'd give it about a week until someone on MCB buys it, dishes the plastic lower and throws it in a wood stock.
For stabilizing the pump, my thought going into it was to have a slightly oversized hole for the pump arm to slide through so it acts as a stabilizer as well as the pump arm. I'm sure adding an additional guide and offsetting them like Hick suggested would definitely help.
Anchoring the trigger to the guide may be doable, just need to look at the install process. Right now the spring force on the trigger is about 4.5lbs.
The internals are currently all custom which would definitely put a dent in the budget. The more I think about it I'm probably going to start leaning toward using CCI internals and going to a breech drop . The key is getting the sear to work and have clearance through the tube during install. It would definitely be idea as the trigger and sear can be cut in the same process from a standard gauge material. I do like your idea of an internal o-ring on the valve cap; i'm sure that could drive up efficiency. Also agree on the bolt face o-ring.
Fortunately doing this design work is pretty much my job, I work as freelance engineer with a focus in product development, so a lot of time spent developing, prototyping, quoting, etc. Something like this where it's more of a personal project I'll start looking at how optimized I can get everything then start looking at places to save, simplify, etc. I actually did a fair amount of custom machine work on MCB around 2008 through 2012 I think, mostly phantom add-ons (I forget my old username), etc. Funny enough I pretty much got my start in design/engineering through paintball and MCB/UGMS.
So with something like this, if I can optimize it and prove out the design then I might look into doing a small run of 100 or so units. If I get it done using phantom internals where my main custom components are the body, valve body, trigger/sear and pump kit that may get the cost low enough to pursue it. Certainly the one piece body is the critical component of it all cost wise if I'm using CCI internals. Everything else can be done relatively cheaply with a decent price break at 100 units, it's not 10,000 units but going from 1 to 100 has a significant impact.
Well I wouldn't see this as a production marker (I don't think the market is there at the moment, hopefully that changes) I actually think your concept of doing a clamshell design is really interesting. With the orientation of everything in the model you could machine a barrel trunnion that has your auto cocker threads, ASA, pump guide mounts and pump arm guide in one relatively small aluminum block. Even have threads on top to be able to mount a stock class feed similar to Phantom. From there a simple slotted tube can serve as the internals bore with a valve fixed to the end and captured by a molded housing. All the critical components are rigidly mounted together and it's fit within a housing that covers internal airlines, etc. Or just have the lower half be plastic and the top of the tube/valve and trunnion are exposed. It would take some work but with investment in 1 or 2 injection molding tools it could be possible to have a pretty high quality pump gun that doesn't cost that much to manufacture. Now you got me thinking, a $200-300 marker with these features might actually be marketable... and then I'd give it about a week until someone on MCB buys it, dishes the plastic lower and throws it in a wood stock.
Originally posted by Siress
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