Just jumped into the EV deep end

[SignOfZeta]

I want to preface this by saying that I am not against electric/hybrid vehicles at all. In fact, I was seriously considering an EV when I was still living in MA. I commuted approximately. 34 miles one way, and my employer had free charging stations at its facilities for our use. So this was very attractive to me as a commuting vehicle.

Infrastructure: It is great that more and more locals are setting up charging stations, particularly at "gas stations," as they are already in convenient locations for commuters and long-distance travellers. That [charge stations] are really not the infrastructure problem; it is actually the capability, robustness, and redundancy of the electrical grid as a whole. We, as a society, are adding more and more electrical load to an ever-aging and fragile electrical infrastructure and generation capacity. Who here is from NY, CA, or other metropolitan areas and experienced brownouts or rolling blackouts? These issues are endemic to insufficient grid infrastructure, and we have been dealing with them for decades with little, if any, improvement at the scale needed. Our electrical capacity consumption is far outpacing efforts to bolster and improve the grid. If we keep it up, we will end up rationing electricity across the country and be forced into mandatory load shedding, as other countries have. Nothing is free, and energy is never cheap.

Rebates/Incentives: They have value in helping kick-start new products/technologies, but they can also be abused for political rather than community benefit. In many situations, they create a soft market and industry because corporations work the system and become overly dependent on them [see solar panel incentives late 2000s, early 2010s]. Personally, I would rather the government stay out of the markets and let the market sink or swim on its own accord.

I’d advise anyone who is “all in” on the logic of EV adoption take a serious look at the fiascos involving E85 in the US and diesel in Europe and the UK. Like everything worth understanding it requires an attention span. When people buy into magic bullet solutions and then stick by them tribally without any thought progress is worse than zero and it takes decades to turn off bad laws.

Go back to the beginning: why do we actually want EVs in the first place? Can anyone even remember that far back? The whole point of it, supposedly, was to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. In 2026 I don’t hear a lot about that. I hear about saving fuel costs and winning a tech arms race and I hear a lot of excitement about being part of the future and how dumb and backward gas burning cars are but I don’t hear so much about CO2 anymore. It doesn’t feel like an environmental issue at all anymore. It feels like Ford versus Chevy or Apple vs Google or some other brand loyalty exercise.

[SignOfZeta]

To be fair, the burden being placed on the power grid by EVs pales in comparison to the burden put on the system by the AI datacenters being built everywhere - so much so that they're even bringing Three Mile Island back online specifically for the purpose of bringing Microsoft into the area. At least if we the get to the point where the AI bubble bursts, the infrastructure built to power these datacenters will be more than sufficient to power EV charging networks.

They are definitely not turning 3 mile island back on to power data centers. Don’t believe everything you read. Seriously. This is not happening. Bookmark this thread.

[Kit352]

I’d advise anyone who is “all in” on the logic of EV adoption take a serious look at the fiascos involving E85 in the US and diesel in Europe and the UK. Like everything worth understanding it requires an attention span. When people buy into magic bullet solutions and then stick by them tribally without any thought progress is worse than zero and it takes decades to turn off bad laws.

Go back to the beginning: why do we actually want EVs in the first place? Can anyone even remember that far back? The whole point of it, supposedly, was to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. In 2026 I don’t hear a lot about that. I hear about saving fuel costs and winning a tech arms race and I hear a lot of excitement about being part of the future and how dumb and backward gas burning cars are but I don’t hear so much about CO2 anymore. It doesn’t feel like an environmental issue at all anymore. It feels like Ford versus Chevy or Apple vs Google or some other brand loyalty exercise.

That's mostly due to the current administrations push for oil. They kill anything that goes against oil. Go to just about any other civilized nation in the world and it's all climate change talk. Even China is on that train and they are absolutely crushing us in just about everything. So we do the logical thing and step back in time hoping that old tech will be our savior again.

[SignOfZeta]

That's mostly due to the current administrations push for oil. They kill anything that goes against oil. Go to just about any other civilized nation in the world and it's all climate change talk. Even China is on that train and they are absolutely crushing us in just about everything. So we do the logical thing and step back in time hoping that old tech will be our savior again.

You’re clearly not going to read up on E85…

Why are you convinced China is “crushing” us? By what metric? They have zero human rights. They crush themselves. I don’t care what consumer products they have if the ruler can have your organs harvested they are not on any path I want to be on.

Why are you convinced, axiomatically, that BEVs are “forward” and other means of transport are “backward”? How is America a better place if everyone drives BEVs? I’m not talking about how it feels to be on the hype train, I mean real stuff. What is the point? Sell me.

[Kit352]

China holds most of our manufacturing, and large amounts of our own money and they pretty much make the world go round. The cars they are making are outselling every American brand without exception. You can throw out whatever little ideas you have about America good and china bad but they are beating us and it's getting worse. When was the last time you were in China to see all these human rights violations? Go on, be honest. I'm from Hong Kong, I know all to well what goes on in China. It's not nearly as bad as it's made out to be. They may have there beef with other nations but as a whole they generally try to keep there people in line. They certainly don't have hit squads roaming the streets and grabbing immigrants and citizens and shipping them off to unknown lands like we do or worse.
Gas engines are the same as coal power plants, you just haven't understood that yet. The future, whether you like it or not (and I can tell you don't) is solar, wind, batteries and hydro. You are asserting that while nearly the entire planet is moving ahead with all these initiatives and we aren't they are all wrong but less than two years ago we were right there with them. My house is solar. I haven't had an electric bill in decades. Are you going to tell me that's bad and oil and gas are better? Please explain. That there is some secret they aren't telling us about the benefits of things that pollute so badly we have to outfit catalytic converters to everything they power? How does it feel to get hit with these gas and oil prices while I go home and plug into free power for free driving? On a system in built and own. How in your mind is that not winning? It's the very dream of anyone who has ever put a drop of gas in there car yet you are raging against it.
What is the last bev vehicle you have driven? And really driven. Not just glanced at.
How much of what you say do you know and how much of what you say have you been conditioned to say? Go on, sell me on your truth.

[Kit352]

I’d advise anyone who is “all in” on the logic of EV adoption take a serious look at the fiascos involving E85 in the US and diesel in Europe and the UK. Like everything worth understanding it requires an attention span. When people buy into magic bullet solutions and then stick by them tribally without any thought progress is worse than zero and it takes decades to turn off bad laws.

Go back to the beginning: why do we actually want EVs in the first place? Can anyone even remember that far back? The whole point of it, supposedly, was to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. In 2026 I don’t hear a lot about that. I hear about saving fuel costs and winning a tech arms race and I hear a lot of excitement about being part of the future and how dumb and backward gas burning cars are but I don’t hear so much about CO2 anymore. It doesn’t feel like an environmental issue at all anymore. It feels like Ford versus Chevy or Apple vs Google or some other brand loyalty exercise.

Tell me more about this diesel situation you speak about with authority in the UK? A reminder I am a British citizen. I know what it's about because I lived there. I'm curious what you were told it's about

[JonM]

They are definitely not turning 3 mile island back on to power data centers. Don’t believe everything you read. Seriously. This is not happening. Bookmark this thread.

https://www.reuters.com/sustainabili...ys-2025-06-25/

I live in this area. They absolutely are spinning up TMI. There absolutely is a deal with Microslop to open a datacenter here. In fact, there's even a meeting coming up to discuss possibly building a datacenter in Perry County of all places (don't get me started on that one). Now, whether or not they pull out due to funding issues or other problems is another matter. I certainly don't want them here, but this is getting off topic.

[JonM]

We took a road trip to Chincoteague, VA this weekend. On this trip, I put everything I learned from my previous trip into practice. The “A Better Route Planner” app was exactly what I needed to make everything go smoothly. I changed up to 100% before leaving, stopped at a DC fast charging station in a nice shopping center along the way, took care of nature, grabbed lunch, and was quickly on the road again. I planned the route to arrive with about a 40% charge and arrived at the hotel at 39%, just like the app said I would. Better yet, we booked a hotel that offers free on-site level 2 charging. All in all, we drove nearly 300 miles one way for less than the cost of four gallons of gas. Yeah, this is working out just fine.

[Kit352]

Prep before hand is key. I've been taking long trips just to identify free or cheap chargers in the area. I can go several hundred miles out on free chargers now. Colleges and town halls usually have a few free lvl2 chargers. Many parks do as well. I haven't found many free lvl3 chargers, those are usually at companies and for employee use only. Some dealerships offer it though like Lexus and Mercedes. They just aren't very convenient to me.
As I sit now my day to day driving is free. There are a slew of free lvl 2 chargers all around me. If I have to go out beyond my 250 mile range I have found a few lvl 2 chargers located in shopping centers that charge a $2 flat rate for unlimited charging so I just need to stop for a few hours. I'm saving an easy $150 a week in gas between me and my wife. If these gas prices keep up I will have paid for the car entirely in gas savings in 18 months.

[flyweightnate]

This is honestly still kind of fascinating.

A decade ago, battery tech and infrastructure made EVs an impractical novelty for the drag strip or a third car.

Now, I'm looking at "break even" between of tank of gas and lost billable hours to charge/ find a charger, say, in the middle of west Texas. I'm willing to bet, once it breaks even, we'll be in EVs. The math on how long you can run an induction heater or welder on a Cybertruck battery is pretty cool too.

[ballofpopculture]

My wife and I were down to one car while I was in law school, but once I was out and working, I went on the search for a new car. I have a very large dog and a new kid, so I also needed something that at least equaled the transportation capabilities of my wife’s car as hers was about to hit 150,000 miles so mine would become the road trip vehicle all around the North East.

There was a lot of flawed logic, or logic specific to our situation that went into making the decision that I did, but I ended up settling on a 2024 Tesla Model Y (Performance model because there was one at the closest dealership and the comparable Standard model was over two hours away).


Bottom line is that I love the car and would likely buy it again if I were making the decision today.

The Good

• Acceleration/drive/pickup is great. Going back to my wife’s car was not a fun experience—especially with Pennsylvania’s aversion to on-ramps and love of two-lane highways.
• Cellphone/app controls. Setting the temperature ahead of time, opening doors, trunks, etc. I don’t know if modern hybrids or combustion cars have the ability to do all of the same things, but I think that’s what I’ll miss most if I ever have to switch cars.
• The supercharger network being part of the navigation means I don’t have to search for a charger on long trips. It does the calculations and just lets me know when I need to stop.
• Electronics package in general. Cameras all around, sentry mode, ability to save recordings of everything.
• Built-In media availability is generally good, though see caveat.
• Storage, with the frunk and under-trunk areas, there’s a lot of options.
• Minimalist interior. Not for everyone, but I like it a lot.
• Grok integration. No, really. Sometimes I’m just curious about something that I would normally google, and I’m just able to ask it. I think that’s pretty awesome. Additionally, they gave it some ability to control things like navigation and that has been nice because you don’t have to remember a voice command, just tell it what you want ([place] closest to [destination], for example).
• $$$ - I don’t remember the exact price at the end of the day, but with EV incentives, .99% APR, money off because it was on the lot, I couldn’t find a comparable vehicle price-wise from any other makers. It wasn’t cheap, but I couldn’t get close, price wise, with the cars I was interested in.

The Bad

• Performance model has 21” wheels with low-profile tires and I’ve found them to be a miserable experience. Harder ride, can’t be rotated, thinner than the wheel they sit on. Almost opted to use my 18” winter wheels during the summer, but didn’t want to juggle tires.
• Experience gets worse if you can’t charge at home. I’ve been using the mobile charger at home, but recently got a new job that has me driving further. So I’m likely to have to hit up a supercharger two or three times a week. Immediately called the electrician to install a home charger.
• Auto windshield wiper logic is garbage. Wife’s CX-5 is 10 years old, but much better.
• No Carplay, or Android Auto. There are a few things I wish I could get on the touchscreen (Waze, for intance). Generally I feel like Tesla’s own offerings work for most things, but you have to give up all that control—and sometimes their implementations of iTunes, Spotify, etc are buggy.
• Tesla’s maps are occasionally outdated, but their traffic sometimes seems better that Waze — I tend to run both on my drive to work, and I find that Tesla’s nav is regularly better at getting me to my destination more quickly.

The Ugly

• Snow driving for me has been tough to handle. One foot driving means that as soon as you lift off the throttle, you’re engaging the regenerative braking. I much prefer to coast when I’m concerned about snow, and feather the brake when necessary. I have yet to figure out the reverse of that. Still a work in progress. I believe they had the ability to turn off regenerative braking at one point (as well as creep-mode like combustion vehicles at red lights) but those are no longer there…which brings me to.
• The technological offerings can change at Tesla’s whim. Recently new Teslas lost autosteer as an option. Thankfully they didn’t seem to do this for older vehicles, but there’s a fear that they could have. That sticks in the back of your head, and could turn any of the “goods” on this list into something else.
• (for some) the touchscreen-focused controls are either distracting or hard to manage. I usually use the voice command or Grok to get over this, but I know some folks that just can’t handle it.
• The likelihood that the car is gathering an obscene amount of data on me.