HPA Nelson?

[Ironnerd]

Do any of you's use HPA for your nelsons? If so, which tanks do you recommend?

I would like to use HPA on my Nelson markers. I am looking at something like a 13/3000 or 22/3000. I don't dislike CO₂, but HPA is really convenient (you just can't beat free, all-day, self-serve air), and provides consistent pressure to the marker (which means once I have the marker set up at 280 fps, it should stay pretty close to that velocity - assuming a method of ball-to-barrel matching is used)

But there is a pressure problem.

Nelson markers were designed to run on CO₂ which delivers between 750 psi @ 60ºF and 1,100 psi @ 90ºF. Most of the HPA bottles I see are regulated to 500, 650, or 800 psi. 800 psi is about what I would get from a CO₂ tank at 65ºF (±). I've played paintball on a 65º day with a 7 oz CO₂ tank, and my recollection was that my marker's performance was pretty ... meh.

[Toestr]

I've never had any issues running anything that was made for CO2 at 800 psi.

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[Chuck E Ducky]

Depends on how much you plan on shooting. I run a 9ci with a 825psi tank reg pressure with stock silver springs for a stick feed Phantom (Same springs I run 12g). You can run lower input pressures with a simple spring swap. However as long as you run about 800-825psi tank reg pressure you should be good to go with most Co2 markers without swapping springs.

(I get 150 shots out of a 9ci on a hot fill shooting 280fps)

Probably get about 250 ish on a 13ci.

First Strikes new 15ci 4.5k HPA bottle will give you a to. If shots I haven’t run it on my Phantom just yet but it’s an amazing pump marker tank it’s just pricey.

There is also 10ci and a 17ci 3k tanks that work well. It really depends on how much paint you plan on carrying and what setup you are using.

Short barrel pistol setups aren’t going to get what a bore matched 10-12” barrel setups will produce. Some Nelson’s like the Hammer get crap efficiency (due to bolt design). So it really depends on what you plan on shooting and how much. My numbers are based off the Phantom with a 12” it’s one of the more efficient Nelson valve marker so your mileage may vary. But as far as the difference between HPA and CO2 is just operating pressure and shots per fill. Most markers designed for CO2 will run great on HPA just got to get the tank regs up to CO2 pressure ranges.

I love matching my HPA tanks to the exact amount of paint I take on the field. This gives you the lightest tightest setup you can run. As the temps drop in the North East I switch from 12g to HPA on my Nelson’s sub 55-60* just because it becomes a waste to run 12g when the temps drop. 12g are not getting any cheaper that’s for sure.

[Ironnerd]

I normally go onto the field with a 50- or 150- ball hopper. So it looks like a 9/3000 or 13/3000 will be in the ballpark.

Domo!

[BrickHaus]

My ICD guns work at 850 psi hpa.

You should be able to adjust a ninja reg to close to that. If you feel it needs more, you could get a shp reg. But Glen Palmer himself told me on facebookone day ( regarding sheridans and HPA) that if you need more than 850 psi something else is wrong.

Id suggest springs, or opening up some ports in the valve and or bolt to correct the issue. I think its a density issue between co2 and air, if you can increase the air volume through porting, it should offset the density difference.

My puma I had to drill the air passage way through the frame out to 3/16" now it shoots well on the 850psi HPA.

[Lane]

Picked up a 9ci Tippmann tank (3000 PSI tank with 850 PSI output)and manual HPA pump last week. Havent run anything over a chrono yet but I've had it on a few different nelsons and everything sealed up and sounded fine. For tinkering and small outlaw games the manual HPA pump is nice to have. Will get the 9ci tank up to 3,000 PSI within a few minutes. Definitely wouldn't want to pump up a 48ci tank with it but smaller tanks (9,10,13ci) are very doable. No need to worry about having 12 grams or filled tanks on hand.

[Ironnerd]

I do like that little 9/3000 Tippmann tank. It's like my 3.5 oz CO2 tank. It costs the same as a larger tank, but is less weight to lug around - and it always puts a smile on my face.

Domo!

[wunderbarsafari]

I used to run a phantom on HPA with a 35ci and standard Ninja reg. That ~800-850psi was perfectly fine.

If I couldn’t get to 280 by the internal adjuster alone, I’d swap the main spring for a lighter or stronger one.

I don’t like to underbore, but that’s another easy way to gain some zip if you need.

[Nish]

I sometimes run the Gargoyle on a 13ci and have no problems. If you do just mess with the springs a little to find a good balance for it.

[Ironnerd]

That's good information. Of course I have three nellies that can use HPA, and only one spring set... [sigh]

I guess I need to find a 0.9/3000 mini-tank for the ER2's (lol!)

[Tinybear]

My SL68II runs just fine on the tippmann 26/3000 tank.

[Ironnerd]

Kewl!

Thanks guys. I figured I was not the first one to try this, I was just having a hard time getting good information. Y'all, of course, had the answers I needed!

Does the 2" x 2' Hydro test exemption apply to HPA tanks like it does to CO₂? If so, that's just another reason to get a wee HPA tank.

[The Inflicted]

I run both my Bushmaster SI and Phantom almost exclusively on ~850psi HPA.
The Phantom could do this right out of the box but my Bushmaster needed a lot of work (respringing, different hammer, freak-boring) to shoot at usable velocities, but that was probably due to modern paint and not the gas source- using 12 grams on it produced similar results.

Does the 2" x 2' Hydro test exemption apply to HPA tanks like it does to CO₂?

Yes. The DOT regulations actually make no distinction between CO₂ tanks and air tanks- for purposes of regulation a CO₂ tank is just another gas vessel with a lower working pressure.

[Ironnerd]

Perfect!

Mui-Domo!

[Chuck E Ducky]

You could always go with like 10ci bottle if you want a lil more wiggle room. But The Tippman 9ci are great. They come putting out approx 800psi factory so it’s an easy swap. No messing with reg shims and such. On less efficient markers you may only see 100 shots out of it but sounds like they may be the perfect range for what you are looking to do. The new First strike tank regs are super small if you wanted to shave another 1/2” in length off the already short 9ci bottle.

Also all of the 2” round 3k tanks are lifetime hydro so they make great investments. The 4.5k CF one like 15ci First Strike tank requires hydro just like a any other tank.

Some fields give you a hard time about the 2” rule. But I just show them the link from the DOT website and I have never had an issue after showing the exemption in black and white. Haven’t been turned away in 20+ years.

[Ironnerd]

Got that link handy?
I wanna verify we are looking in the same place.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=23c33619ea36d7bb6bd0b49d06881020&mc=true&n=pt49.3.180&r=PART&ty=HTML#se49.3.180_1209

[Chuck E Ducky]

Give you an idea of size.

This is the MAX Tac 9ci but the Tippman is almost identical and comes powder coated instead of painted finish on the Max Tac. Tippman is also Substantially cheaper and the finish is more durable (however it is covered in warning labels). I run a Max Tac only because the Tippman wasn’t available at the time. The Tippman 9ci is a better bang for your buck. This is the way.

[Ironnerd]

I get it!
Pump-kin!!!!

[The Inflicted]

There is also 10ci and a 17ci 3k tanks that work well. It really depends on how much paint you plan on carrying and what setup you are using.

From an ergonomic standpoint I feel like a 17ci tank is just about perfect. Their length mirrors a "normal" 68ci tank.

[Chuck E Ducky]

If you are not running the bottle vertically the 17ci is definitely just the right Length for Off for bottom of the grip frame mounts. 13ci I find to short however you could run a simple reg extension. I did this for a bit before I found a 17ci for sale and it worked fine. Even the first strike 4.5k 15ci is a lil short for me I ordered a Power house reg extension for mine to lengthen it up a bit. But the 17ci is the perfect length I agree.

[iamthelazerviking]

17ci is the most comfy "small" tank for my long arms. Ran one on a Phantom for a long time. I had to switch it a blue spring when using HPA though. Silver for co2/12 grams.

[Chuck E Ducky]

All you have to do to run the same stock silver springs for both is to get your tank reg output pressure up around 800-825psi.

[iamthelazerviking]

Chuck E Ducky that is what was so weird. Reg output was plenty high.

[Chuck E Ducky]

We’re you running an in-line reg? It also could be that your bolt tip oring was not fitting the barrel you were using properly letting some of the pew escape.

That’s unusual that you need to swap springs if your input is high enough.