Paintball History Question

[Hp_lovecraft]

I'd never seen Uvex break. The lens was very thick. They did leave a hillarious welt on your face. Like Doc said, they were sued by Uvex, but the local fields still used them until around 1990 as rentals.
Kids did however sometimes show up with "shop goggles", and nobody allowed those. Those did have way too many accidents in the early 80s. They were included in those NSG kits.

I do remember buying the early style JTs. The ones with the lens held on by zip ties! If you didn't have a way to cut them, the zipties would stick up, and so we called the early JT bug masks.

The funny irony is that as the local field phased out the UVEX goggles... they replaced them with those "pursuit" masks. The ones so bad that APG banned them from all ads, and pictures. haha. But they did make a nice "pingggggg" when you were hit in the mask. So theres that. They also had plenty of room for adding PC fans.

I also remember around 1990, thermal lenses were the fad, and people started selling expensive fan kits for JTs. "Turbo fan" for $150 or so. But we disovered that they were really rebadged from a ski-goggle company, and we would buy them direct for $25. haha

[Drunkscriblerian]

Interesting statement about the goggle-fans, I remember those. I never bought one because I thought they were gimmicky and noisy; I nailed at least two people because their goggle-fans kicked on at the wrong time, I heard them coming and shot them.

Also, do you know when paintball stopped using shop goggles as eye-pro? I know they were used in the early days of the game, and as someone who has a background in manufacturing....yeeesh that was a terrible idea. Those things are NOT impact-rated at all.

[uv_halo]

I've run nothing other than JT goggles going back all the way to the WhipperSnapper. I don't remember any that were designed to use zip ties. The closest thing I remember was the T-Bolt lenses for the WhipperSnapper / Elite frames. They had taller tabs with hole through them and, little, black-plastic plugs that went through them (and if I remember correctly, they had little screws to keep them attached to the circle vents along the top and bottom of the frame). However, it would make perfect sense to use a Zip tie if you lost your T-bolt.

[Slim]

To get back on topic, I only mentioned the UVEX because this limited protection (without a face mask or ear protection) resulted in more injuries (albeit superficial) than the safety equipment we use now, and the red/blood colored paint created the perception we were simulating war - both things that contributed to a negative image of the game by the public and the media. The evolution of safety equipment and the introduction of fun-colored shells and fill helped mitigate these negative perceptions.

[DocsMachine]

[...]and of course the one idiot that put his balls in the freezer[...]

-No one, ever, anywhere, has put their paintballs in a freezer. 🙄

I mean, I'm sure plenty of people have tried- and it's a very interesting phenomena to me, because everyone, and I mean that literally, everyone, from the guy at the auto-parts counter to the lady that cuts my hair, when they hear I play paintball, mentions something about freezing the paintballs.

Everyone. I could write a college thesis on the phenomena.

But, the point is, it doesn't work. The liquid fill of a ball is propylene glycol, commonly used today as a non-toxic car antifreeze. In pure form, it doesn't even start to get slushy 'til about 70 below zero. Putting it in a common home refrigerator/freezer won't do a damn thing.

AND... even if you brought some liquid nitrogen or something to the field, and froze them solid... unless your hopper and marker were similarly refrigerated, by the time you got to the starting gate, they'd be mostly thawed anyway. And by five minutes into the game, they'd be completely thawed.

AND... even if by some miracle you got the stuff to actually freeze, and actually arrived on target still frozen... then what? The ball bounces and doesn't break. We've all taken bouncers. Feels pretty much the same as a regular hit. "Freezing" the ball doesn't make it any heavier, and doesn't make it come out the barrel faster, so it has the same impact energy whether it's -70F or +70F.

That some player cranked his velocity up, sure. We saw a lot of that. But that he put his paint in the freezer? That had no more effect than if he'd put it under his pillow, stored it in the hall closet, or stuffed it in his sock drawer.

Doc.

[The Hobbit]

I heard a theory on the origin of this “myth”. Something about in the early day of tournaments, players would throw the bags of paint into a cooler with some ice. The thought was to keep the fresher or from swelling or something to that effect.

Now pure speculation past this point. Someone not familiar asks why they do that. To which smart ass answer about hurting more when frozen is given. Then somehow that spread quite literally across the nation.

[Paintslinger16]

He most definitely did, I was there, we had a old single wide trailer on the outlaw field we used as attack and defend still had most the glass in windows the crank out kind, like multiple louvers and with his Sniper it was breaking the glass.

[DocsMachine]

To get back on topic, I only mentioned the UVEX because this limited protection (without a face mask or ear protection) resulted in more injuries (albeit superficial) than the safety equipment we use now[...]

-On of the earliest games I ever played, using UVEX and a Woodstalk, I took a relatively close-range shot directly to the right ear, that literally dropped me to my knees. Felt like I'd been hit with a baseball bat.

I was >< this close to packing it in for the day and never coming back. Only reason I stayed was I still had a box and a half of Cal Mag left, and figured I might as well use it up while I was there.

I've kept things like that in mind ever since- especially when I was running my own field. I wanted the players to have fun, and come back. All too many tourney-wannabes just see them as cannon fodder to throw half a pod of "bonus balls" at... and then wonder why their field closes for lack of business.

Doc.

[SETHZILLA!]

My first goggle setup was Uvex/Woodstalk too.

I loved Cal Mag paintballs. especially the Black Beauty's!

[Drunkscriblerian]

-On of the earliest games I ever played, using UVEX and a Woodstalk, I took a relatively close-range shot directly to the right ear, that literally dropped me to my knees. Felt like I'd been hit with a baseball bat.

I was >< this close to packing it in for the day and never coming back. Only reason I stayed was I still had a box and a half of Cal Mag left, and figured I might as well use it up while I was there.

I've kept things like that in mind ever since- especially when I was running my own field. I wanted the players to have fun, and come back. All too many tourney-wannabes just see them as cannon fodder to throw half a pod of "bonus balls" at... and then wonder why their field closes for lack of business.

Doc.

Attitudes like this are why I'm back in paintball. The sport spent a few years catering to aggro douchebags and paid the price for it. These days, someone who just wants to play paintball to have fun can IME go to a recreational field and expect a warm welcome followed by a fun experience - instead of a brutal baptism of fire by way of some jackass with a space gun.

[DocsMachine]

I heard a theory on the origin of this “myth”. Something about in the early day of tournaments, players would throw the bags of paint into a cooler with some ice. The thought was to keep the fresher or from swelling or something to that effect.

-That I've heard about. Maybe not with actual ice, but at least cold packs, since some brands of paint didn't fare well in hot weather.

The thing about my experience is that people who have never so much as seen a paintball gun in person, will say that. That either they would, or knew somebody that did, "freeze" them. I wasn't joking about the lady who cut my hair or the guy at the auto parts store. I will bet a month's paycheck the closest either of them have been to a paintball gun was seeing one on TV, but they both immediately brought up "freezing" the balls.

Now, admittedly this is Alaska, and there may be some lingering childhood thing about freezing a snowball (which nobody did, either) or possibly freezing a water balloon (which I also doubt anyone did. You might as well just throw a rock.) But it's amazing to me that everyone says that- but only if they've never played, themselves, and don't have friends or family who played.

I've heard it from a guy at the DMV (fellow customer) the guy at the pizza-by-the-slice place, a couple Harley guys, a pipe welder, a hairdresser, two of the clerks at the local Sportsman's Warehouse, a cop, and probably dozen others I'm forgetting, over the years.

Doc.

[Grendel]

"...I heard a theory on the origin of this “myth”. Something about in the early day of tournaments, players would throw the bags of paint into a cooler with some ice. The thought was to keep the fresher or from swelling or something to that effect....

I keep and use a soft cooler just for my paint (as well as my teammates back in the day), I do not put ice in or even cold packs in it. I do it because coolers are great at keeping paint protected from the elements [all elements] if you keep it out of direct sunlight. It also does a wonderful job providing general physical protection as well. I have use some form of cooler for my paint for essentially the whole time I have been playing [35 plus years]. Oh I have as well as my teammates back in the day were accused of "freezing" paintballs and that is why we used coolers but once you showed and explained it to the accusers they were more likely to say something like, "...oh, I did not realize that; that is a good idea...". The soft cooler I use now, especially for big games, is a food vending cool/hot food vendor bag used at stadiums. It is heavy duty with a internal metal frame and two boxes of paint fit inside perfectly and there is a Velcro hatch on the top. It works great here is what I take to big games I have a smaller purple one somewhere for Pump Rec days.

[DiamondDave]

If I think of it I will put some in the freezer tonight and report back. I hear the same tall tales every time as well. Paintballs don’t freeze but the myth still propagates.

[Grendel]

Back to the OP Questions -

...WAS there ever an organized attempt to shut down/limit paintball due to its 'redneck/survivalist' roots?...

Yes at times, especially when I first got involved in paintball in the late 80s. I know in South Carolina there were attempts at County and Municipality levels changes and attempted changes to Zoning laws to prevent opening Paintball Fields. It was a lot of, "it is okay as long as it is not in my backyard", type efforts mostly out of ignorance more then malice (in most cases). There also were attempts to change rules/zoning after the fact with grandfather clauses to prevent competition as well (said it before there are Dicks and A$$holes in every community).

The ones that really were a PITA were the ones brought about by the PTA, enraged moralists or clergy. These efforts were driven from fear and ignorance but here in the Bible Belt those moralists/Clergy wield a lot of power and influence. I attended several Zoning Rule and County/City meetings as a witness/SME. Back in those days I was heavily involved with Sea Cadets, Boy Scouts, and Explorers. All three of these local entities I worked with for outside activities from camping to foraging to hiking and eventually paintball so I would be part of coalitions that attended these meetings pushing for the value of paintball as a positive activities for youths. In the end we were very successful overall even to the point of establishing Church and School sponsored clubs in paintball.

[iamthelazerviking]

Oh man I love all the great "I know a guy who froze paintballs!" stories. I believe Wolf, the magfed player out of Canada, made a video about this and he froze them to show that nope, it's not possible.

Edit: here it is.

https://youtu.be/Tty2CVkM3as?si=i7iwUYZhuEipiAy-

[acrewofone]

....Speaking of other countries regulations, last I knew, Japan limits velocity to 180fps....

Wow, that means both my modified 3357s and AGA62s would be considered shooting "hot" at around 220fps....

When I first started playing paintball around 1998, I was trying to gather a group of co-workers and start a game day. The company CEO found out about it and actually had a company wide emergency meeting, telling us that paintball was "dangerous" and several people had actually been killed playing! They tried to ban us from playing paintball on our own time! They said playing known dangerous sports, whether on our own time or company time, was considered grounds for termination. Work rules were sure different back then. We found out later that the CEO's son had been injured in a "paintball accident", he and some others were playing paintball in the woods, they had brought along a keg to tap after the games, the son got so drunk he fell into the camp fire and burned himself bad, had to have skin grafts. Obviously the fault of this dangerous paintball sport!

[k_obeastly]

Oh man I love all the great "I know a guy who froze paintballs!" stories. I believe Wolf, the magfed player out of Canada, made a video about this and he froze them to show that nope, it's not possible.

Edit: here it is.

https://youtu.be/Tty2CVkM3as?si=i7iwUYZhuEipiAy-

Being sick of hearing these stories is a large part of why I don’t talk about paintball with non-players.

[Hp_lovecraft]

As far as freezing paintballs, when I worked at a field for much of the 90s, we had to kick many players out for showing up with frozen paintballs

Can you freeze them? Of course. But they don’t freeze solid like an ice cube. It’s more like really hard ice cream. Or peanut butter left in fridge.

and they won’t break and they hurt more. Thus all the concern.

I don’t understand the myth that it’s a myth, but it really is a debate of what defines “frozen”. Solid like a rock? No. Very thick and potentially dangerous? Sure

[Paintslinger16]

Here to tell you that idiots put paintballs.in the freezer, and they were definitely more solid then liquid, seen the same balls break glass. I thought it was stupid and didn’t condone it but it was done.

[DocsMachine]

Frozen or not, the balls weighed the same, and came out the barrel at the same velocity, and so had exactly the same impact energy as a regular ball. 'Frozen', whether "solid" or just "slushy", simply affected how easily it broke- and as I've said, everyone here has taken a hit that didn't break.

Temperature, in this case, cannot affect the weight, velocity or energy.

If the player had cranked their velocity up, that'd be one thing. But "frozen", whether rock hard or merely chilled, makes no difference in the felt impact.

Yes, there's lots of debate about "point impact" of the unbroken ball, versus the "spread out" impact of the larger splatmark, but at the same time, you could argue the breaking ball delivers all it's energy to the target, where the unbroken one bounces off, taking some of that energy with it. Either way, in practical terms, the range of the shot- how far apart shooter and target are- makes a great deal more difference in felt impact. 'Freezing' is essentially irrelevant.

Now, that said, the idea that a player even tries it- presumably with the intent to cause greater pain or injury, is a whole different subject.

Doc.

[flyweightnate]

I'd rather be hit by paint than a super ball, and I'll take the super ball over a nylon ball. I think flexibility matters, even if energy is the same. It's all about how it transfers, the impulse in physics.

[Drunkscriblerian]

I came back to this thread and saw some references to "Frozen" paintballs. I guess I'll add my experiences with them, because I actually tried to do this (for science only, I assure you...I never once tried to shoot one at a person). Back in the day I heard the rumors about frozen paint and got curious. So I stuck some paint in the freezer, waited an hour, threw it in my Pro-Lite's hopper and shot at some cans. The result; paint that flew really, really badly and liked breaking in the barrel. A couple that did manage to fly straight sounded like they hit harder, but who knows if that was actually true.

I think maybe the rumors about frozen paint got started because of people keeping paint in coolers to keep it fresh crossed with people being not as careful about their velocity as they should have been (which WAS a huge problem in the 90s, thank you C02). I know I believed it until I actually tried it and found it didn't really work. I mean, you see someone digging paint out of a cooler, later on that person shoots you and it really really hurts, paintballs are full of liquid, ice is a solid, solids hurt more to get hit with...the logic does track when you think about it, but like I said I think the actual culprit in any real-world case of "frozen paintballs" causing distress/injury was probably a hot marker.

Not to say there weren't/aren't people who did/do try to freeze paintballs with the intent of hurting fellow players...of that I have zero doubt. Idjits gonna idj.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Didn’t that wack job Mike from TecPB put them in liquid nitrogen. They froze but all dimpled and wouldn’t shoot straight for nothing. There is probably a YouTube video buried somewhere with him doing this.

[Levi]

No liquid nitrogen in this one. Just put them in the freezer and they dimpled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyXXXCC3B0E