Where did I go wrong? PTSC Build

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  • shooter311
    Lumbering and loud
    • Sep 2020
    • 1174
    • Maine

    #1

    Where did I go wrong? PTSC Build

    After playing at Slim's I wanted to finish my PTSC with whatever parts I had. I want this to run on straight 12grams, no regulator. I am borrowing the prototype, Colonel Mustard (CM), which is now working perfectly. I would like my PTSC to work the same as the prototype. So I took apart CM and I tried to match the lower tube the best I possibly could. The hammers are same weight and nearly identical. The Hammer spring is same size and compression strength (I compressed both by half an inch on a scale and made sure they were the same weight). The valve springs are the same length and compression rate, but the one I have is definitely different looking, but again it functions identically. As for the valve, I believe I am using a shocktech valve, but the dimensions of the valve are very similar, although the pin is slightly different.

    I rebuilt CM and it is super smooth and very efficient. I replaced all o-rings and lubed up mine, and when I threw on the 12 gram, I heard it gas up, but when I pulled the trigger it was like there was no gas in it. I screwed the IVG way in, and when I fired it there was the tiniest pop. I degassed it, set my Ninja adjustable tank to 800 psi screwed it on and had the same result. So I kept lowering the pressure until I hit around 500 psi and it sounded like it was firing a reasonable loudness, but I didn't test it with paint. At this point the pump stroke is heavy and it sound violent when hitting the valve pin, so even if I got it working here I wouldn't want to use it like this.

    What am I missing... Even if I am off a little bit (valve pin?) I would think I would still get a little bit of function when matched to CM. The only obvious thing that is different is the valve and pin, but they are so close I feel like I should still get some kind of result. I feel the obvious next step is try lighter valve springs, but I am just wondering if I am missing something, I just feel like this setup should work... I could use some help!

    Attached Files
  • F1FX
    MCB Member
    • Sep 2023
    • 232

    #2
    I would try to change your valve. Shocktech valves are low pressure and designed to run under 300 psi. Cant tell 100% from the angle and limited view, but CM valve looks to be a palmers valve.

    Comment

    • Hellion360
      Power Lurker
      • Jul 2020
      • 2452

      #3
      Blue valve does not look like a Shocktech.
      Appears to be a CCM.
      Need Inception Designs or Shocktech Products? Let me know!

      MCB Feedback --------- MCB Consolidated WTB

      old PBN feedback

      Comment

      • Jonnydread
        Wild Card
        • Jul 2020
        • 4388
        • Lil Rhody

        #4
        Originally posted by F1FX
        I would try to change your valve. Shocktech valves are low pressure and designed to run under 300 psi. Cant tell 100% from the angle and limited view, but CM valve looks to be a palmers valve.
        Agreed, I have had the best luck with direct co2 input with PPS valves. Hell I’ve had the best luck in general with them. CCM valves have given me more headaches
        đź’€ PK x Ragnastock đź’€

        Comment

        • superman
          MCB Member
          • Jul 2020
          • 3348
          • Mount Pleasant, SC

          #5
          blue valve is a ccm valve. gold valve is a palmers valve.
          BeardedWorks.com (Your Inception Designs and Shocktech Dealer)
          BW Youtube
          BW Ebay

          BW Email
          I buy Automags and Mag Parts also.

          Comment

          • Ecapnation
            MCB Member
            • Jul 2020
            • 4214
            • South Central Long Island

            #6
            Also CM had an air chamber spacer to remove some volume iirc

            Comment


            • shooter311
              shooter311 commented
              Editing a comment
              Yes, you are correct. I plan to make one for mine, but I need to get a shorter VASA screw so it can slide in.
          • Jimmydee
            🇨🇦 ehh
            • Jul 2020
            • 473
            • Alberta Canada, eh

            #7
            That armson 🤩..that green

            Comment

            • Chappy
              Overmoderator
              • Jul 2020
              • 1284

              #8
              You’re way too far over your sweet spot for that valve on unregged co2.

              Comment

              • shooter311
                Lumbering and loud
                • Sep 2020
                • 1174
                • Maine

                #9
                Thanks all, I don't have a Palmer's valve, but I have some others, I'll swap in and see if I can get them to work, if not, I'll be on the search for a Palmers.


                I have been away for a bit, last I knew Palmer's closed, and google says the same thing, but their website is still up, are they back operating?

                Comment

                • Masonhd81
                  Hungtor
                  • Oct 2020
                  • 436
                  • Angier, NC

                  #10
                  I’ve had great efficiency on a standard wgp valve on 12grams
                  90% of my markers go “Psssssssssssss”

                  ————————Feedback below————————

                  https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...nhd81-feedback

                  Comment

                  • Ecapnation
                    MCB Member
                    • Jul 2020
                    • 4214
                    • South Central Long Island

                    #11
                    Seconded.... Stock wgp valve especially from 98 and earlier cockers run fine with 800 psi.

                    But you have to make a devolumizer

                    Comment

                    • shooter311
                      Lumbering and loud
                      • Sep 2020
                      • 1174
                      • Maine

                      #12
                      Thank you MCB Experts/Animals, I threw the WGP valve in and it is shooting perfectly! Efficiency was 22 b/12g which I would be happy with, but I just drafted up a de-volumizer (copied the one in CM) and I am printing it now, wish me luck on that one.

                      I didn't think the valve would have that much effect on function with pressure, I thought it would be more dependent on springing. However, it makes sense why they make LP valves.

                      Next question, do you think there would be any negative issues with a 3d printed (PETG) de-volumizer? There shouldn't be any moving parts touching it, but given the pressure and air flow, could that cause issue?
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                      • Ecapnation
                        Ecapnation commented
                        Editing a comment
                        3d printed parts are porous it might cause some issues
                        Last edited by Ecapnation; 05-22-2025, 03:56 PM.
                    • Chappy
                      Overmoderator
                      • Jul 2020
                      • 1284

                      #13
                      Look up how to sweet spot an auto cocker. Pressure range has a huge affect on these valves. Keep
                      in mind that running above the sweet spot can cause a spike when the pressure drops. If your valve sweet spots at 700 for example, and you run it on unregged co2. It will have a lower velocity at 800 psi because the pressure is holding the valve closed. This means as your 12 gr runs out of liquid the pressure will drop. You can easily crest a situation where your last shot or two actually increase in velocity because the lower pressure approaches the sweet spot and allows the valve to stay open longer. Long story short run a couple full 12ies over the chrono to make sure you don’t get a velocity spike at the end.
                      Last edited by Chappy; 05-22-2025, 11:00 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Hellion360
                        Hellion360 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Ha! beat me to it while I was typing in.
                    • Hellion360
                      Power Lurker
                      • Jul 2020
                      • 2452

                      #14
                      There is also a potential safety issues with a valve that has a lower sweet spot in that your velocity can spike towards the end of the 12gram for a couple shots.
                      You could end up 1-2 350 fps shots or something.

                      Just a consideration that is worth paying attention to in your testing.

                      The older small opening stock valves are a terrific choice as others said.
                      Need Inception Designs or Shocktech Products? Let me know!

                      MCB Feedback --------- MCB Consolidated WTB

                      old PBN feedback

                      Comment

                      • magfed sniper
                        Rockin and Cockin
                        • Jan 2023
                        • 99

                        #15
                        Those two are smoking hawt man!

                        Comment

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