Designing a new paintball gun from scratch (aka, school gave me a Solidworks license)

[Fubarius]

So long story short, I find myself suddenly having a Solidworks Student license. And what would we all do when suddenly given access to high end CAD software? Why design a paintball gun of course.

Now I've been futzing about with this software for about a year now at work, mostly self taught, but I just started a proper course on it at the local community college (work paying for it, woohoo!), so I kind of know what I might be doing. Maybe. Probably a lot of bad habits. Any who, lets get started...



...yeah, not much yet. Just a tube, but a tube threaded for an Autococker barrel (using the specs found here). One of my goals is to design with ease of manufacturing in mind, so I'm keeping things really, really simple for now. The tube is so far 1" outer diameter, to match a lot of Autococker barrels, and has a bore of 0.700". I'm trying to use as small of breech bore as possible to prevent stack clipping. And tube length is, well kind of irrelevant at this point since I know it will change, but 4" if you have to know.

Tomorrow I'm adding a feed hole, maybe a feed neck of some kind, and possibly detents. Depends on how much time I want to tinker with it.

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Wish list of features?

At the moment I'm leaning towards a type of Nelson'ish pump, but NOT a Phantom clone, quite far from it, though I may design in some part compatibility. I'd love for this to use as many off the shelf accessories as possible.

[Trbo323]

I've only dabbled in solid works, more experience with AutoCAD & rhino. My suggestion to you is to do something like a stacked tube blowback first. Essentially copying an existing design so you can get the flow of solid works going before you attempt to design something new. This way you will have a base to work from in a known design but adding tweaks like a cocker breach, empire or PE feedneck, cocker mid block bolt are tweeks not complete functionality changes

Sent from my motorola edge 2024 using Tapatalk

[Super Nova]

What about some kind of hammer 7 remix? Keep the cocker threads, make it mag fed but use PE or dye mags instead of the kingman mags, body could be whatever you want simple tube or tacticool with all sorts of rails. I’d be in for one lol

[Buff_phroggie]

I would make it around off the shelf pic rails to just be screwed down as needed/wanted. It would keep with the goal of ease of manufacturing. Definatly cocker threads, and dye or pe mags. I would look at mock buffertubes simmilar to airsoft or real AR-15 to keep the off the shelf parts goal

[Daltech]

This is a very good discussion. If you get what everyone wants, it could be the next…


Off the top of my head I can think of, sights. It’s like newbies use them but regulars and pros don’t.

Vertical feed.

Autococker thread, Bolts, same as much as before, let’s not reinvent the wheel.

No hoses, gas through everything.

Mech, but electro optional.

Anything special let’s keep quiet and Pm.

List out the basics of what your marker has to have.

[Fubarius]

Eh, while I am an ardent supporter of the blowback modding community, the design has kind of been done to death. I find them more fun for physical alterations (in the real world) rather than design modifications (something that can be done virtually).

The single tube pump design seemed to practically stop developing decades ago, and what new ideas that were tried ended up in super cheap plastic guns, while the more refined higher end versions just rehashed the same old decades old designs. That I can think of multiple luxury priced single tube pumps that still used the old nelspot breech drop design is just sad.

And besides, just taking something that exists, measuring it every which way, and copying those number into a sketch, that's what I do at work at lot of the time. Doesn't satisfy the creative urges.

[Siress]

My suggestion is to focus more on a form factor than the firing mechanism, at least at first. The typical alternative form factor is a bullpup or pistol design. There are many other options though. How about a tommy gun (drum feed)? Or something with an alternate firing mode like an underbarrel "shotgun" that launches a ton of 50cal paintballs? And definitely plan to use available parts for internals at first. It takes a long time to design those

[Trbo323]

Eh, while I am an ardent supporter of the blowback modding community, the design has kind of been done to death. I find them more fun for physical alterations (in the real world) rather than design modifications (something that can be done virtually). .

Yeah that's why it's a great stepping stone to replicate in solid works first. Don't look for the final project in the first thing you do. Copy a spyder in virtual space so you have a real world marker to take measurements off of.

You don't work on your final project for a class as the first project you do in the whole subject. Build up to it.


Sent from my motorola edge 2024 using Tapatalk

[Ecapnation]

Not about the gun more about SOLIDWORKS...

Don't design the threads unless you absolutely have too. More so if you are making an assembly. The files get super heavy and will lag your computer.

[tyronejk]

+1 I still add threads to my CAD models, but that's because 1) my models are small enough to stay manageable and 2) I'm and idiot and will forget to cut threads if they're not printed in my drawings

[Ecapnation]

I've been using GD&T call outs on threads for a while mostly because I do the programming and class of fit requirements

[Siress]

I also model 100% of my threads. If performance needs improving, I'll suppress them. There really isn't a good reason not to model them in SolidWorks now that they made it so efficient with the Thread feature.

[tyronejk]

Like you already said, I would try to use as many standardized parts as possible. E.g. Planet Eclipse detents and Empire feedneck stub.

Zdspb has a great repository of CAD files for reference: https://www.zdspb.com/tech/misc/cadfilepost/index.html

[Fubarius]

Not about the gun more about SOLIDWORKS...

Don't design the threads unless you absolutely have too. More so if you are making an assembly. The files get super heavy and will lag your computer.

Oh, I normally don't bother with the threads, and I most certainly won't for every screw and screw hole, but being able to see the barrel threads on the cross section just looked too damn cool.

It's the kind of thing I'd keep suppressed most of the time, but turn back on when it's time for a cool picture.

[Fubarius]

And in case anyone was wondering what I normally do with Solidworks, it's stuff like this...



...this would be an exploded view of a bathroom vanity.

I'm getting better, the darn cabinet only went complete chaotic 4 or 5 times while I was sketching it up.

[PBGunny]

Always remember the First Rule of Solidworks... Solidworks Hates You.
There is nothing you can do about it, there is no amount of training that makes it go away
It just plain hates you.
Once you figure that out, everything makes sense.

[The Hobbit]

Damn making me reconsider going solidworks for side hustling. Inventor is love

[Ecapnation]

Also this....

[Ecapnation]

Got to pin your parts to the origin in the first sketch.

[flyweightnate]

BORN modeling is a really good idea... not sure if they call it the same thing in the SW community but in Inventor, use and constrain to origin planes whenever possible. Daisy chain dependencies are evil and chaotic.

[Ecapnation]

I've always called it anchor design or planar design once I get people familiar with planes in SW

I'm a 17 year vet with teaching about 10 interns under my belt

[Fubarius]

Thanks to the handy link from tyronejk a few posts up I grabbed a Phantom feed block to add to this project. So plenty of stock class options, and direct feed adaptors out there if vertical hopper is your preference. Though using a Phantom spec feed attachment brings up an issue.

If I line up the feed hole where I want it, as close to the barrel as possible, it puts the mounting screw in a bad location....



It puts the mounting screw location right above the end of the barrel, where the body is quite thin. Now options include a thicker body, but then the feed block won't sit flush. Making the body thicker on top, sort of an oval body, but that makes manufacturing much harder. So we bring the feed block back a bit so the screw can thread into a thicker section of the body, at the cost of a bit longer bolt stroke. But then again too short a bolt stroke can sometimes feel weird.



Ok, we'll stick with this for now.

Now we add the feed hole, which is smaller in diameter than a stock Phantom feed hole. You can't have the feed hole bigger than the breech bore. Well you could, but it looks goofy. I may try it later. And a quick hole for a tapped hole or threaded insert...




Ok, that should work for now. Question on the feed hole to mounting screw spacing, I've seen people use a two hole Spyder feedneck on a Phantom. Is that a good match, or a "good enough" match? I'd like to add a second feed mounting hole to use a two hole vertical feed adaptor, and allow a forward mounted stock class feed block if the user desires.

[Siress]

Perhaps the most clever solution to that issue you just encountered is the one that RTR used for the Gargoyle: Press fit studs. This works remarkably well and requires very little material for a secure hold. The reason I like it so much is that it allows the ball to rest in the barrel, avoiding concerns with small or brittle paint. This does, however, require an opening on the opposing side for the counterbore or a CNC and some abuse of a back deburring mill (or some of the more exotic tools for back cutting).


Ah, found my old CAD of it. Here's a cross section view. Note that the ball rests in the barrel (green part there is a cocker to phantom thread adapter so it could use phantom barrels while being a cocker threaded body)

[Ecapnation]

Your going to have a hell of a time getting a pem stud In with the correct tonnage that way

[Siress]

Haha, it was a trippy experience to disassemble the garg. I guess it's also worth pointing out that the gargoyle misused these studs. They were never actually pressed in. They were just loosely assembled over the anodizing. So whenever you took off the front frame nut and the barrel it would fall out freely.

[flyweightnate]

Oh crap, really? I remember it being a zinc plated stud, and thought it was loosely clinched. (Like, wobbly but still embedded.) Actually loose enough to remove... that's wild.