Bought a custom KP-3. Have some questions about it and its custom work.

[The Inflicted]

Yesterday I bought a customized KP-3 and I'm trying to figure out what all was done to it and by whom.
This isn't my first KP, but the seller said this was his father's gun, and most of the work was done before he was born.
The gun isn't currently holding air, primarily because of a bad leak from the insta-pierce. I'm guessing a Phantom 12-gram seal would work to stop this.



First of all, the lever changer- is this a Palmer's Quicksilver? I'm curious if only Palmer offered a part like this, and if it was available as a kit or if buyers also had to send their guns in for the required milling of the lower tube and/or installation of the insta-pierce valve. Did TASO or someone else put out a comparable part, or is this likely Palmer work?

I don't know anything about Quicksilver-style changers and am curious if there are any tricks or tips I should know, ie., how to keep the knob from being loose and rattling around even when tightened down.



Same question about the velocity adjuster. My other KP also has its trigger group drilled and tapped for this sort of thing but this adjuster is of a smaller diameter and finer threads than that one. Again, Palmer work, or the kind of thing someone would do in their garage?



The aluminum bar stock is interesting to me. It's clearly custom-bent and riveted, and I'm curious whether anyone has seen similar work by some other known custom shop. It has the laudable effect of providing a good deal of sight picture clearance, even when wearing a mask, and is surprisingly light.



Turning to the feedneck, is this the normal KP-3 factory feed? It's been a long time since I've looked at one up close and pictures online make it look like the normal factory KP3 feed should be just a straight tube, whereas this one is flared a bit and allows a WGP-style box loader (but not a 10-round tube) to be jammed into it. The rest of the top tube shows no sign of desoldering or any other suggestion that this was ever a tube-fed gun.


Also, what's the purpose of the little open circular port above the breech?



Finally, can anyone give me a crash course of thermo valves? Are these safe to fill and use anymore? I would probably be using the dry ice method to fill this thing but I don't know whether turning the valve clockwise opens the valve, like on a modern on/off universal fill adapter, or closes it, like on a propane tank.

Any help is appreciated!

[Chuck E Ducky]

I imagine the port above the breach is to allow air transfer helping the ball stack feed faster and better and to visually see when you have fed a ball into the breach. Likely not as necessary today since paint is so small. But if you had larger paint like back in the day and smaller ID feedneck imagine it could slow the feed rate. It’s only on the back stroke if the pump travel so in its forward position the breach oring on the bolt would seal. You could visually see it’s loaded from the top and likely helps it feed better.

Looks like it’s got a Cooper T bolt in it. Looks to me like a home brew drop stock so you can get behind it to aim. Actually a lot of it looks home brew mods of the era. It’s definitely cool!

[scottieb]

KP-3 would have been constant air with the air line out of the bottom tube at the front. The only reasons I can see it being modded is to shorten the air line/move to the rear some, or to have the option to use 12ies.

[The Inflicted]

I'm having a devil of a time getting this Quicksilver thing to work.
The original seal on the insta-pierce adapter had completely disintegrated. I tried replacing it with some 12-gram puncture seals I had on hand, but they appear to be too thick to allow the cartridges to get properly pierced. Running the system with no seal results in a puncture but a rapid complete loss of gas. I tried wrapping the ends of the cartridges in plumbers tape or using a small O-ring around the puncture needle but neither worked.

Does anyone know of a good source for reliable, thin puncture needle seals?

[The Inflicted]

I gave up on trying to get the 12grams to seal, partly because I was running out of 12-grams, and tried to get the dummy cartridge to seal with a remote tank attached. Still couldn't get it to seal up, but after taking the valve apart I'm not sure if that's due to the dummy cartridge not wanting to seal against the insta-pierce or because the main valve O-ring had completely turned to goo.

What's the best way to get this crap off the valve components, anyway? Brake cleaner?

[ThatBobbyjoe]

For old gunk plastic razor blades and brake cleaner is my go to combo. I also really like denatured alcohol for general cleanup and degreasing. Denatured alcohol generally doesn’t mess up paint or plastic.

[Ecapnation]

Thats a hole for a palmer style detent... Looks like it has had some palmer work done to it through the years

Definitely started as a kp2

[The Inflicted]

Thats a hole for a palmer style detent... Looks like it has had some palmer work done to it through the years

Definitely started as a kp2

How can you tell?
Wouldn't they have had to shorten the lower tube?

[Ecapnation]

How can you tell?
Wouldn't they have had to shorten the lower tube?

Yup, not an uncommon mod for them. Less work to make one length quick silver and modify tubes to work.

I have one cut down.

Edit.. that and feed angle, its entering lower on yours

[The Inflicted]

Yup, not an uncommon mod for them. Less work to make one length quick silver and modify tubes to work.

I have one cut down.

Edit.. that and feed angle, its entering lower on yours

Thanks for the info.
Looking at this old ad, I'm wondering if the stock was Palmer work as well.

[Ecapnation]

Likely.

Fyi... Heres my very very early paladin from a converted k for reference.

[The Inflicted]

Likely.

Fyi... Heres my very very early paladin from a converted k for reference.

Hmm. My feedneck also looks to have been fashioned from a plumbing elbow of some sort, but there's no added joint added to the upper tube.

I posted the gun on the Palmer Owner's Facebook page, and Glenn himself has confirmed that he worked on my gun.
As he and other's recall, this type of aluminum bar stock was in part a response and workaround to National Survival Games banning guns with wooden stocks at some point in the late '80s.

I'm happy to report that after rebuilding and cleaning the gun it's now holding gas and shooting just fine. I ended up sealing up the insta-pierce with a CCI phantom bucket changer seal, but am having trouble getting the Quiksilver changer to reliable pierce cartridges. Perhaps my technique needs work or the unit needs adjustment. I still want to find some solution to it wobbling around.

I posted a bit more about this in another thread here: https://mcarterbrown.com/forum/paint...rce#post893268

On the other hand, I was very pleased and surprised to find that this gun was shooting 290fps on 800psi remote HPA, which I would have never expected. I'm now thinking the best way to run this will be on a 22ci tank under the stock rail.

[Cunha]

I am pretty sure I was there ten thousand years ago when this was sold. And it was sold as a palmerized gun.

The quicksilver is definitely palmer and the detent is 99pct likely to be palmer. despite the fact that its just a hole I don't really remember anyone else doing it.

Very good gun.

Best way to run it is a 12 gram and a hopper that holds the exact number of shots you can get out of the 12ie!