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**Hobbes** · 08-27-2021, 04:50 PM

Why is mine (maybe most) so heavy? I was expecting this to be a few pounds lighter. It's a brick. My Pimps don't weight this much! I was thinking it was going to be light like my Phantoms were. - The valve/body are stainless steel. The Xvalve is aluminum but $300+. The ULE body is aluminum but $120+.
I have the Classic, do I need to go to level 7 or 10 or anything else? - It's probably already level 7. You can find a level 10 kit if you're chopping.
I haven't shot it yet but the guy I bought it from did shoot it and it was holding air. Do I need to do any kind of maintenance to it, and how often? - Just oil it every now and then.
Will I be able to play a game and run my 13/3000 tank with it or am I going to need my 50/4500? I sometime can't run my Emek a full game with the 13/3k so I doubt this will work either but maybe I'm wrong. - I wouldn't suggest the 13/3k if an Emek cant get a full game.
I'm going to have to figure out a hopper. My CTRL is low and light but everything else I have is tall and heavier. That's 2 things this marker doesn't need. Mine has a right feed tube and I have an elbow for it. On my Emek I needed the electric hopper to keep up but do I need that for this? - I would say you'll want a revvy type loader to be safe.
Mine doesn't have a gas through in front and the rail isn't built for one. I am assuming I have to replace the rail to do that? Any advantage to doing that other than comfort? - The rail could be drilled for it. If you want the front grip you can find another classic rail easily enough.

**Tinybear** · 08-27-2021, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Cyberpyr8 View Post

I bought an Automag classic on FB and it arrived today. I now have more questions than answers. I wanted one because I hear so many owners talk about how much they love their Automags and most of them look pretty cool. I have seen a few Emek owners sell their Emek saying they were going back to the Automag. So I bought into the hype and picked up a cheap one. I have never held one, shot one or done anything with one. I've been around for a while but never got into the older mech guns.

For the questions:

Why is mine (maybe most) so heavy? I was expecting this to be a few pounds lighter. It's a brick. My Pimps don't weight this much! I was thinking it was going to be light like my Phantoms were.
I have the Classic, do I need to go to level 7 or 10 or anything else?
I haven't shot it yet but the guy I bought it from did shoot it and it was holding air. Do I need to do any kind of maintenance to it, and how often?
Will I be able to play a game and run my 13/3000 tank with it or am I going to need my 50/4500? I sometime can't run my Emek a full game with the 13/3k so I doubt this will work either but maybe I'm wrong.
I'm going to have to figure out a hopper. My CTRL is low and light but everything else I have is tall and heavier. That's 2 things this marker doesn't need. Mine has a right feed tube and I have an elbow for it. On my Emek I needed the electric hopper to keep up but do I need that for this?
Mine doesn't have a gas through in front and the rail isn't built for one. I am assuming I have to replace the rail to do that? Any advantage to doing that other than comfort?

This isn't meant to be mean spirited or bash it, and yes I bought it with no clue what I was getting into. Wasn't the first time and won't be the last. I like jumping into things over my head and figuring it out. I am just trying to see what the appeal is of these things from guys that use them on a regular basis or maybe even have dumped their Emeks to go back to one. Kinda sucks because it will be 3 weeks before I have time to go play again but I will try it out in the backyard before then. I guess it gives me time to start lifting weights to be able to play with this thing! 😂

-Classic Mags are entirely made from Stainless Steel. So there inherently heavy for there size. This makes them incredibly durable and robust. But yes they are a bit heavy. Mags can be built light but that’s the ULE Bodied Mags with the X valve.

-Level 7 or level 10 is just referring to the bolt. Both can be installed on a classic valve. Personally I like level 7 bolts as there slightly more efficient and no tuning required. A tuned level 10 bolt is the anti chop bolt and allows for j to be one if not the softest on paint shot in paint ball. But it comes at the cost of using a bit more air and requires a bit of tuning initially.

-The Mag design is extremely reliable. I have been shooting my one for over 20 years now problem free. Clean em and give them lots of OIL. And they will serve you well for a very long time.

-A 13/3000 With a full fill will likely net you around 120-130 shots. There not overly efficient but generally work with the old rule 10x CI of a 3000psi tank and 15x CI of a 4500psi tank

-On my power feed Mag I run either a 12v revy or a sport shot hopper. Anything more is over kill but won’t hurt anything

-You can add a vertical foregrip air threw adapter to the front of you classic am/mm rail. Or like me I adapted a A5 foregrip onto one of mine with a bit of grinding (of the grip) and a bolt and nut (bolt also Grinded).

attatched a pics of both my classics. Ones a power feed classic. And the other is essentially upgraded to be a RT ULE custom but still running a classic valve with LEVEL 7

**LukeAO** · 08-27-2021, 05:49 PM

I like jumping into things over my head and figuring it out.

Over your head? Actually you're shy of being 1/2 way to your ankles. rofl

I am just trying to see what the appeal is of these things

You purchased a 30 year old marker to see what the hype is? Sorry but this wont get you there.

But sure, most of us loved our Mags in the early 90's back before the Classic Mag was a Classic, yea, the Classic will still hold it's own, but it is old, slow and heavy, much with the Mag has changed since the early 90's...

**Hellion360** · 08-27-2021, 07:51 PM

Post a picture! I have never found the classic onerously heavy.. But often they are paired with things like Steel or Brass barrels, which make a somewhat heavy gun into a very heavy gun.

Classics are reasonably fast shooters, easy to maintain, super reliable, and quite accurate.

With regards to the foregrip many are already partially drilled from the inside. If you take a look under the body you might already have a spot to easily drill through and use a gas through/grip.

**Euphie** · 08-27-2021, 09:52 PM

The weight can be a sort of advantage. I ran a Stainless body along with a Stainless barrel in my E-mag and it was super accurate because no amount of kick or trigger pull would really move the gun. Both my classic mag and my E-mag were way heavier than any Shocker I have ever owned despite them being triple the size. The trigger pull can seem stiff at first but, with a bit of practice you can really rip on them.

I am a fan of Automags, but I could see how it would be a bit of an acquired taste.

**Toestr** · 08-27-2021, 10:11 PM

I wouldn't necessarily call a classic mag heavy (unless it's in an old school tournament setup), more dense than anything.

As others have said, you almost certainly have a level 7 bolt, which are pretty bulletproof. They do have a few areas where they can go wrong/be improperly adjusted, but those are pretty exceptional. Once you have it set up and shooting it should be good unless something is purposely changed. Level 10 can be a pain to setup and can come out of adjustment by itself from what I've heard. Tradeoff is that chopping becomes basically impossible.

Some people say to put oil in the ASA and dry fire for your regular maintenance, some say not to as it can take off the grease in the regulator. Only things that need any kind of regular maintenance are the powertube and on/off. I don't know what kind of maintenance schedule is required on those but it doesn't have to be after every outing. Many of the seals aren't critical, and it will run even if they aren't pristine. Don't unscrew the valve halves unless it's absolutely necessary, it helps preserve the reg seat.

Classic mags have efficiency that is basically on par with a Tippmann. I use a 13ci for light setups when playing with a few people or rentals.

I personally wouldn't use any force feed loader just because they're a bit heavy to use with elbows. If you're not shooting ropes you can get away with a revvy or quick gravity feed. Or you can get a level 10 and rip it. Keeping a longer feedstack will also help with feeding.

If you're going to keep the twist lock barrel either use a wire detent or put a strip of tape over the nub.

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**Dusty Bottoms** · 08-28-2021, 11:34 PM

I would watch the old Automag maintenance video on YouTube to give you a good understanding of how these classic valve mags work. Automags are simple in design, but work within fairly tight tolerances. They require orings to be of good quality and condition, and to be the correct material and durometer. You can’t throw in cheap buna orings and have it work right like you can with an Emek. I would consider buying a Docs cocker barrel adapter, because the twistlock barrel system is one of the major drawbacks of the original design, and everyone has cocker barrels. I’d also check to make sure your powerfeed plug is the newer parabolic style. These have two holes drilled in the bottom of them. They feed better than the original design. As long as your using the correct orings, and everything is lightly lubed before you play, you can get away with just putting a few drops of oil in the asa and dry firing it a few times before you put it away.

**Brokeass_baller** · 08-29-2021, 04:41 PM

Automags are like 2½ pounds. I don't consider that heavy. Paintballers have become wimps. Lol

That said, you'll want a barrel adapter so you can use autococker barrels. Twist-locks are less convenient these days and can cause chopping issues with tiny paint. Doc makes a good one. Some Canadians make one as well, but I can't remember the company name.

I use a level 7 bolt without issues. But if you run into chopping, the level 10 is the way to go. It can be a little intimidating to tune, but it's really not too bad. Level 7 is just simple and works.

Maintenance is easy. Drop some oil in the ASA before you play and dry-fire it a few times. Otherwise, replace the o-rings every 5-10 years.

I would recommend you use your 50/4500. Air efficiency is probably the only real drawback I see in the automag. On a full 68/4500 fill, I usually get 1000-1100 shots. Back in the day, that wasn't so bad. But today, people get almost a case out of their Emeks. So it's behind the times in efficiency.

Your CTRL or whatever should be fine. My Spire IR fits my stainless vert feed perfectly. I prefer Revy's, but the BK speed feed is just so good. You WILL want an electric hopper. Mags are fast.

And as far as foregrip goes, most people use a vertical ASA and a gas-through or expansion chamber. You probably have a hole on the underside of the rail for the VASA.

And here's a little tip. The stock Automag trigger is fine and crisp, but a bit heavy and stiff. Buy an RT on/off with .750 pin from AGD and slap it in there. It'll lighten the trigger pull by about half, and still retain that snappy short feel. ULT's will NOT work in Classic valves.

**Cyberpyr8** · 08-29-2021, 08:36 PM

Thank you all for the help! I finally got to take it out back and air it up. With a tank and hopper on it it feels a little better and more like it should. I once ran a Cronus with a Pinokio and 400 round nose cone and steel tank, this isn't nearly that bad but I was expecting it to weigh more along the lines of a slightly heavier phantom. I do think I will need to get a front grip of some kind. I couldn't aim real well with it. I was shooting low and I think that's because I was holding the front. Maybe I'll get used to it. I am surprised to find I really like the offset feedtube on it. I can look down the barrel and aim. The Omen had an offset feedneck and I always felt I aimed better that way. This is even better yet.

I will check out the barrel adapter. It would be nice to use my AC barrels. That might also help my aim. Mine came with a RT barrel and it's kind of short compared to what I'm used to. I'll also look for the RT on/off that BB mentioned. I liked the feel of the shot and I think with the whole setup could be a pretty cool gun for me. Normally I buy something and I have 10 upgrades at the door before I get it. I have waited this time to see if I was going to like it before upgrading everything. Glad I did based on what everyone said. I won't get to play for a few weeks but I think I will try it out and see how it does.

**MrBarraclough** · 09-17-2021, 11:41 AM

Sorry I'm so late to the party, but thought I might chime in anyway, even at risk of redundancy:

Originally posted by Cyberpyr8 View Post

Why is mine (maybe most) so heavy? I was expecting this to be a few pounds lighter. It's a brick. My Pimps don't weight this much! I was thinking it was going to be light like my Phantoms were. Stainless steel valve, regulator, power tube, and bolt assembly, plus stainless body tube. Tom Kaye overbuilt the hell out of these to be pressure tolerant. Also, the aluminum alloys we now use either weren't available or were prohibitively expensive when these were originally designed in 1990. Compared to other markers of its day, the Automag was fairly compact and light. The rail is aluminum and the carbon fiber grip frame was quite the innovation. AGD had to do some public relations work to convince people that the grip frame wasn't cheap plastic and would actually hold up.
I have the Classic, do I need to go to level 7 or 10 or anything else? The classic is Level 7 by default. In my experience, the Level 10 upgrade is not necessary as long as you have two things (1) good detents and (2) a force-fed hopper. Here's the deal: The bore diameter of the stock barrel, and probably most other twistlock barrels, is huge compared to today's paint. It's something like .692 to .695. The nubbin (detent) system for the twistlocks generally isn't up to the task with small (sub .685) paint, and if you try to run a force fed hopper you'll get double feeds or more likely 1.5 feeds resulting in chops. If you have some of the old style wire nubbins you can re-bend them to project a little further into the breech, but you can do that only so much before they'll get caught on the bolt and torn up. The newer plastic nubbins you can't do much with. The best solution I have found is to either get a ULE body or buy a Doc's adapter so that you'll have rubber finger detents and be able to use AC threaded barrels. I run a Doc's adapter in my Minimag body. Between that and a motorized hopper, my mag doesn't chop at all. The downside is that you're putting yet another hunk of stainless into an already heavy gun. But a $30-40 adapter is way cheaper than a ULE body.
I haven't shot it yet but the guy I bought it from did shoot it and it was holding air. Do I need to do any kind of maintenance to it, and how often? A couple of drops of oil in the ASA and dry firing it (with the barrel out) is just about all it needs most of the time. If you chop paint then you'll want to pull out the bolt for a wipe down and re-oiling. There are a couple of "oil here" holes on the bottom of the reg body. Doesn't take more than a drop and honestly doesn't need to be done very often. Automags are pretty low maintenance.
If this one has been sitting for a long time and the seals are old, you might want to go ahead and replace them instead of waiting for one to fail. AGD sells full seals kits. Best to have one in your bag, along with some extra reg seats, which is the only non o-ring seal in the gun. If you do a full seal replacement, don't overlook the reg piston o-ring. You access it by backing the velocity adjuster all the way out of the reg body. It's easy to forget.
Will I be able to play a game and run my 13/3000 tank with it or am I going to need my 50/4500? I sometime can't run my Emek a full game with the 13/3k so I doubt this will work either but maybe I'm wrong. No, a 13/3000 isn't going to run an Automag for a whole game unless you have a super conservative playstyle that kinda misses the point of shooting a Mag. Also, remember that mags were actually designed for HPA (years before HPA was even a thing; yes I'm serious; interesting story there) but had to have backwards compatibility with CO2, so they run at CO2 pressures. Mags will not function at input pressures below 650psi, and may even act up a bit then. So use a standard output tank. They won't work with low pressure tanks.
I'm going to have to figure out a hopper. My CTRL is low and light but everything else I have is tall and heavier. That's 2 things this marker doesn't need. Mine has a right feed tube and I have an elbow for it. On my Emek I needed the electric hopper to keep up but do I need that for this? While an old revvy will keep up with a mag, a force-fed hopper is a very good idea. Blowback up the feed tube can be an issue, so a hopper that puts positive pressure on the ball stack really helps keep the feeding smooth. As stated above, combining this with good detents prevents chopping rather well. As to the height, yes, an Automag with a standard offset feed is crazy tall compared to today's centerfeed markers with clamping feednecks that sit right on top of the body. There are a couple of things you can do. First, get a low rise elbow. The Armson/PTP nylon elbows are the ones I use. Second, if you are feeling brave, you can cut down your feed neck. Depending on the elbow you use, you can take 3/4 to 7/8" off without any problem. Just leave enough to fully seat the elbow. Ask for advice on how to go about it if you decide to do that.
Mine doesn't have a gas through in front and the rail isn't built for one. I am assuming I have to replace the rail to do that? Any advantage to doing that other than comfort? No, you do not have to replace the rail. If you take the body off you'll notice a blind pilot hole that has already (and very thoughtfully) been milled into the top of the rail. It's even countersunk already to accomodate the bolt head. I forget what the diameter of the hole is. Just match a drill bit to it, slap that sucker on a drill press, and voila, you can mount a foregrip or vertical ASA. It's just a matter of comfort. When I returned to playing last year after 20 years away, my mag was still set up with a vertical ASA and an HPR, relics of the CO2 era. Now that I run HPA, I replaced that with just a skinny foregrip. It's purely a comfort thing. There are foregrip extender brackets you can buy if you want to move it forward and spread your hands out a bit further.
Don't run an external HPR on an Automag, by the way. They already have an excellent regulator built in and sticking one between it and the tank's reg will just impede flow and starve the gun.

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