New (non-AGD?) valves

[Embier]

I started this off as a response to superman and his really cool classic valve reg cap, but decided it didn't really fit in there.

When is someone going to make a fully aftermarket automag valve (with or without the reg)?

A new X-Mag valve and L10 is $325 from AGD. Now *I* bought one and am happy for it.

...But I also want a classic valve. AGD doesn't offer new production classic valves at that price point or at any price point. I can't be the only one who would like a new production classic valve. Heck, I'd buy a new production capped valve, forget the reg. Make it aluminum while you're at it.

This may be a dream, but is it a realistic one?

[Jordan]

Talk to Kit ... he made me an aluminum valve a few years ago with a cap.

The catch is you need to transfer the powertube over from the old valve... most need the laser weld cut and not all are threaded, apparently. So... you'd still need to source a parts valve with a threaded powertube.

[Embier]

Interesting, but (and I admittedly wasn't clear) I meant full ready-to-go drop-ins. Sourcing a bolt, yeah, maybe, especially because why bother with making your own L10 when they're available new? But otherwise I guess I'm talking about the whole system/core/drive whatever you want to call it.

[superman]

Luke customs is making his own. Not really sure if there would be a big price difference producing a classic style valve over day an x other than the internals.

[Hellion360]

I didn't know this, how interesting!

[pghp8ntballer]

Besides the desire for an aluminum classic valve so it can be anodized to color coordinate, what’s the point of selling new classic valves? Any improvements were made into the X valves. The price point of a new classic valve would be on par with the X valve, so why buy a classic? The used market has a plethora of valves for reasonable prices. And half the time they just need a few drops of oil to get them up and running. I simply don’t think new classics would sell very well which is why they are not available anymore.

Even new aftermarket valves wouldn’t sell well. Once again, what improvements could be made aftermarket? Milling designs? The mag valve was a very good design with HPA. Any other improvements can be found in the plethora of different but similar gun designs. You really can’t change the Mag valve form factor without modifying or changing the rail, body, and frame. So at that point you have a different gun altogether.

As awesome as it would be, it would be a loss for whoever would undertake a reasonable “production” run.

But I am by no means a mag expert. Just going off of threads and such over the past many years of reading.

[LukeAO]

Their posted here in the sticky thread at the top, one of the markers does have a reanodized X valve through

[nak81783]

Thanks. I guess I should have looked in more obvious places.

[Brokeass_baller]

One benefit classic valves have over X valves is simplicity. I greatly prefer classic valves over retro/x valves. I've owned a few, and always ends up selling them. I don't need more than 13-15bps, which the classic will do. With an RT on/off, the trigger pull is light and snappy. There's nothing to hate about them.

[nak81783]

Start watching this video at 58:25-ish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gWTqc08gl8

[Embier]

This bit?

"Is there any chance for a resurgence in agd pump kits and pump rails? Anytime my brother or me play pump tourneys with out [sic] pump mags people always ask about them."
Tim/Sandman: "Yeah, I don't think we'll ever make that kit again, uhmm...simply because there's, there's [garble] a certain amount of return versus cost to produce and uhh,... you can't make the numbers, y'know, you have to hit a certain amount of parts to get the cost down I mean we can make a pump kit and sell it for $300 dollars uhmm, I don't know anyone who would buy it for that. But I could probably make it and sell it for low numbers and sell it for that."

[nak81783]

Continue watching. Tim explains costs, volume, initial investment, and demand. That’s at least why AGD won’t do it.

[Embier]

I mean. Tim is very clearly talking about what it would take for AGD to spin up production as they don't have any manufacturing capability. Yeah, when the company you contract out for valves is, as he puts it, "doing you a favor" that's an issue.

But unless there's yet another part I should be listening to, he does talk about how new Automags are a community driven effort. He calls out Nummech and Luke's as people who can do what he cannot. I think we can safely add Bearded Works to that list now. Hell, when he starts talking about special 30th anniversary valves/guns he even quotes a price of ~1200. Which is as noted nothing compared to what people pay for new limited edition autocockers.

[superman]

pics of Luke's Valves

[FredMnkyDad10]

I just saw Luke's valves on AO. Now question is will he be making RT classic version using banjo bolt and new frame with hidden air lines.

[Brokeass_baller]

Is an aluminum power tube a wise idea? Otherwise, I love this!

[Cunha]

Luke, thanks. The classic valves shoot dead nuts but lighter weight was always worth while on them. Super cool

[Pump&Run]

I've done my research, talked to those who know, made my own determinations, studied and considered the mechanics in 3d, studied the mechanics of the entire model and how it works as a whole (beyond the single part) re-engineered the factory design making it more than 2-1/2 times stronger (side note: also changed it to L10 ONLY, meaning you no longer need the L10 backing washer) and based on my understanding of how previous Mags were engineered, and an understanding of the decisions TK made and why, including a consideration as to how AM's were manufactured and the associated issues with different designs and manufacturing approaches, also including an accounting of the problems they had over decades of use and abuse. With all that considered, I've decided to give my ideas, engineering and manufacturing a try, but only with what I believe is a fairly clear understanding of what came before and why certain decisions were made, no more no less. These are prototypes, we're going to test them and see what happens and if it fails, so what? It can always be replaced with another aluminum powertube or replaced with the factory stainless steel powertube, it's my gamble to take and I have no issue stepping up to the plate and taking my turn at bat.

I appreciate your continued artistic and engineering prowess over the years Sir. Please do continue to march!

[superman]

Haha you and I must be on the same wave length. I pulled my xvalve pump mag off the shelf yesterday and got it shooting again.

I was looking at modifying area on the backside of the classic valve I capped too to add more volume and reduce the weight.

also worked on my pump mag rail milling fixture design on Friday.

[FredMnkyDad10]

I heard pump mag!!!

[maggot]

Loving this thread! Agree with the sentiments prior: Classic is better than X, but the weight is a major downside. An aluminum, capped Classic would be a winner (even if I was forced to use L10 ). And when I say winner, I mean like the single greatest aftermarket offering for Mags ever.
Something like this would cement your place in all-time Mag history behind only TK himself.

[Embier]

Would a capped x-valve still have velocity fluctuations? If not, I'd rock that.

[Criticalhammer]

An all aluminum regulator back would be an amazing product for people who want to shoot classic valves. No need for a vert reg, and running a hose (which some folks hate). It would cut weight by 1/2 if not more, and the price to manufacture would not be obscene.

If someone started producing them, at sell them at the 50$ range I'd buy two.