I've got an old RT classic that I'm trying to get running again. I've run into the problem that after I gas it up I can not get it to fire single shots, it always seems to want to shoot almost full auto and when I can get it to shoot semi it fires on the pull and release of the trigger. I thought it was because my input pressure was too high and tried using a lower one but the problem persists. Is there something that I'm missing?
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Check the on/off pin length. It should be. .740" or longer.
Check the on/off top oring and that it fits snugly.
Check your sear edge that catches the bolt.BeardedWorks.com (Your Inception Designs and Shocktech Dealer)
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Thanks man ill look at those.Comment
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Edit: This information is incorrect, check post #7 and #8 for more details.
With no air on the marker, hold the trigger back and air it up. Does it full-auto fire as soon as it's aired up? If so replace these two o-rings. if that doesn't work, the look at the on/off. Last time I ran into this though, it was these two o-rings allowing air to bypass the on/off and flow directly into the dump chamber.
Last edited by William the Third; 08-29-2025, 09:12 PM.I can haz feedback?
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What effect does a longer/shorter pin have?
I may have the opposite problem where I can't keep my mag on the RT for more than a few shots
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When I went through my RT and really worked on getting it to RT, the pin length made a difference... why - I hope someone can explain in a way that i understand- looking at the diagram maybe that tiney bit off the end affected the volume of air behind or passing by the on off?, but I can attest to making very noticable difference. second after that was getting a reg that I could adjust in 900 to 1200 range - then you can really get that thing to do whatever you wanted it to. running at least a case through it once I had it pretty dialed started to smooth it all out. Makes me want to take it for a spin again!
to the OP's post - what is your input pressure... the higher it goes with mine the less easy it is to single shot it.Comment
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I can haz feedback?
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"it appeared that this particular marker was getting unregulated air from the tank (excluding the tank's reg, obviously)"
The X valve regulation isn't what you think, meaning the air feed to the valve is not regulated down as it enters the X valve. The chamber fills at the output pressure you're running from your tank, then the X valve regulator closes the air coming from your tank when it reaches operating pressure. Hope that makes sense. -
LukeAO I hope this doesn't come off as sounding arrogant, but you would be incorrect in your assumption that I don't understand how regulation works on RT family valves. While I may have not realized that there was a vent hole between those two o-ring, for lack of ever needing to realize it (the though never even crossed my mind about where or why that hole went), or encountering a leak from there, and it not being shown in any diagrams I've looked at before. Like I stated, knowing that now, the reason there are two o-rings with a spacer fully makes sense.
Anyway, I do fully understand how regulation of input pressure differs between Classic family valves (and the majority of regulated markers) and RT family valves, and how that is used to create the RT effect (in extremely short, Classic: input goes reg, on/off, dump chamber, RT: input goes on/off, and then simultaneously reg/dump chamber). After all, it's pretty clear in the animation that I stole the frame from in the above picture how regulation works on RT family valves. Now I will admit I tend to be very verbose and detail oriented, often writing more than people are willing to read. I also tend to be poor at transferring my consciousness into a logical message. So I would understand if you started to drone out and didn't continue reading my previous message. The key points were that the first shot was crazy hot, and that any attempts to make adjustments of regulation, even to the point of basically backing out the adjustment screw to the point that input pressure should have been completely cut off, made no difference in the first shot velocity. The only way for all of these conditions to have been met would be if the dump chamber was being filled with unregulated input pressure. The most logical path, based on the diagram above, and not being aware of the vent hole, was those two o-rings. Knowing now about the vent hole, that obviously wasn't possible without an obvious leak (unless the vent hole was obstructed, incomplete, etc, which I confirmed that it wasn't). Now knowing this, it's obvious that the o-ring immediately to the left of the yellow circle, the one used as the reg seat, had obviously failed. If it hadn't, the first shot wouldn't have been crazy hot, and regulation adjustment would have made a difference in the first shot velocity, or even allowed the input pressure to be cutoff. After all, there are only two paths for input air to flow, and I now know one has a vent for this very reason. Anyway, as I stated, I'm not trying to come off as arrogant, and realize you're one of the foremost experts on AutoMags. I fully admit to not having a bunch of experience and knowledge with AutoMags. I actually appreciate the opportunity to learn something new, even if it was about a measly hole.
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'RT' effect, or 'rapidfire', depends on a few variables: how broken in the orings are, on/off pin length, air input pressure, bolt type, bolt spring type, and trigger frame geometry. You can tweak all of these things to achieve the desired effect you want. It will vary valve to valve, gun to gun, but generally these things effect it:
1. Orings- stiff, new orings can somewhat inhibit the effect, where as nicely broken in orings will typically make it easier to achieve the 'rt' effect.
2. On/off pin length- generally, a shorter on/off pin will make the valve 'rt' easier, and a longer one will inhibit the effect. You don't want to go too short, however, or that can cause runaway firing and other issues. If you aren't using an adjustable tank regulator, like a MaxFlo, Armageddon, Ninja SHP, you will have to rely more on a shorter on/off pin to achieve the 'rt' effect.
3. Air input pressure- the higher the air input pressure from your tank, generally the more the valve will 'rt'. Think of it like the way a supercharger dramatically ups an engine's performance by force feeding more air into the cylinders, allowing it to burn more fuel. The amount of air input pressure needed depends on the particular valve, and what tank regulator your using. This is where adjustable regulators really shine. Even with a stock on/off pin length, I've had some RT/X valves really 'rt' well at 900-950psi, and others that needed 1000-1100psi to really come alive. Also, one tank regulator's '1000psi' output isn't necessarily the same as another's 1000psi. The reg's flow rate, and recharge rate, all come into play.
4. Bolt type- Lvl7 bolts are usually much easier to get to 'rt', whether using on/off pin length, air input pressure, or a combination, than Lvl10 bolts are. Unfortunately, of course, Lvl7 bolts aren't anti-chop. However, now with force feed loaders like Rotors, you can cut down significantly on chopping wit ha Lvl7 bolt, but I still prefer Lvl10 bolts, even though the Lvl7 bolt is a little more air efficient.
5. Bolt spring type- gold bolt springs on a Lvl10 bolt will 'rt' easier than the stiffer red bolt springs, as there is less resistance. One of my RT Classics runs like a raped ape with a gold bolt spring, but if I drop in a red one it will behave much nicer, with only occasional burst of 'rt' depending on how I pull the trigger.
6.Trigger Frame geometry- different trigger frames will behave differently in terms of achieving and sustaining 'rt' effect, and this also depends on how you pull the trigger, as well as where you place your finger on that trigger. Z-man, an old school exponent of 'rapidfire' back in the 00's on Automag Org, had a great video where he showed how he could change the rate of fire on his mag when it was rapidfiring just depending on where he placed his finger on a double trigger. Using a AGD intelliframe, the higher up his finger was on the trigger, the faster the bps, and the lower he went the slower it was. Some people prefer double finger triggers for 'rapidfire' over single trigger setups, because it may be easier to find and maintain that sweet spot, but I've always preferred single trigger frames myself. Your mileage may vary.Comment
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Not looking for a specific length here as I understand it's highly marker specific but in general is there any length that's typically too short? If I start trimming mine down when am I going to hit "the danger zone" so to speak
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The on/off pin is at 0.738. Now I just have to wait for AGD to come back online to order a new one. Thanks for the help, guys.Comment
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