Quick Compo - 2k vs Pre-2k Cockers

[Cdn_Cuda]

While this likely common knowledge to most MCBers, I have a pre-2k and a 2k body on hand so thought I’d do a quick comparison for people looking to learn more about cockers. This is my first pre-2k cocker, so please feel free to correct me and/or add information.

As is usually the case, what I have on hand is a little but of a hodgepodge, and not the purest examples of Pre-2k and 2k, but will give people the general idea. I’ll point out the oddities and people can chime in and expand on this as well.

with all that out of the way, I present to you a late pre-2k cocker body (approx ‘95) and a 2k System X cocker body.

UPDATE: ended up with a couple more pre-2k cockers so will be updating with more info. One is approx 1992 and has Sheridan internals and the other? I’ll find out when take it apart.


I don’t have the cocking rod installed in the 2k body, but it will appear later. Note the back clock has a more angular design, almost a P-block, but it uses a standard 2k bolt.

Now the Pre-2k has a 2k back block, which means it can run a standard 2k bolt. Stock Pre-2k back blocks are larger, and stick out more, so pre-2k bolts are longer. Either bolt style can be used on a pre/2k body as long as they are used with their proper back block. So 2k back block with 2k bolt or a pre 2k back block with a pre 2k bolt will work.

Update: And here’s the couple more correct pre-2k lined up with my modified pre-2k body:


This lets your really see the difference between a 2k back block (shown at the bottom) and the standard chunky back block on the middle and top bodies.

For reference, the body that has the stock attached is serial number 17875 making it approximate 2005. My modified pre-2k the pump handle is a closely numbered 17472, making it the same vintage. The top body is 6805 which I believe is about 1992. Externally the bodies are all very similar if not the same. Internally, not so much.

[Cdn_Cuda]

So first things first, let’s look up front, where one of the biggest differences is:


I’ve removed the pump kits to show the front of the markers where the banjo bolt, or in this case the main pump rod is mounted. The Pre-2k has a much smaller hole than the 2k. Is is one of two major differences (IVG being the other) and is very important to know. It will affect the type of front block or pump kit you can use.

All the of the pre-2k bodies I have have the same sized banjo fitting.

Note, both these markers were set up for pump, and the 2k has had its vertical ASA (where you mount the reg) flipped. So the hole for the 3-way timing rod is on the wrong side of the marker. This can be done on either body stile.

[Cdn_Cuda]

Next we’re going to look at the body and see the differences in how the internals are setup.

First, the view of the back of the markers. At first glance it looks pretty similar, but the IVG on the Pre-2k looks a little odd:


This is the second major difference. The 2k body has threading in the lower tube to allow for the IVG to adjust the velocity. The Pre-2k body does not have any threading. It uses an insert similar to what’s used in Spyders to hold the spring inside.



The IVG for the Pre-2k body is held on by a screw in the body. The 2k bodies have a similar screw hole, but that is used for mounting the beaver tail.


Now here is where my older pre-2k differs from the other pre-2k markers. My 1992 cocker had Sheridan style internals, so different hammer, springs and valve.
As there are no holes drilling into my body, you need to unscrew the hammer lug from under the body. In this photo my hammer’s lug has been install upside down, so you can unscrew it from the bottom. This is just a standard lug flipped.

[Cdn_Cuda]

And let’s look a those IVGs now. There is a sizeable difference between the three IVGs, with the 2k being much smaller and lighter. The early 2k is also needs different springs and is harder to adjust.





In these next shots you can see the insert used to adjust the tension on the spring for the Pre-2k IVG. This version of the IVG is compatible with standard cocker main springs. The older version is not compatible with standard cocker springs and spring need to be trimmed to change velocity.




And simply because I have room here, here’s a comparison of the 2k and pre-2k bolts. They are interchangeable as long as you use the matching back block (pre-2k back block with pre-2k bolt, 2k back block with 2k bolt):

[Cdn_Cuda]

Now jumping back to the bodies again, these was one major thing I forgot to mention due to having a modified pre-2k body: ball detents! My modified pre-2k body has been drilled for ball detents. My other two pre-2k bodies do not have any.




Next we’re going to look at the hammer lug adjustment hole. Later model Pre-2k bodies will has this adjustment hole, but earlier models do not. Without having this adjustment hole you cannot adjust the hammer lug, which needs to retract to remove the hammer from the body.

Pre-2k bodies with hole and without:



Hammer Lug Adjustment hole:

[Cdn_Cuda]

To put things all together, here is the 2k and Pre-2k hammer to cocking rod assembly:

Please ignore the strange spacers on my 2k cocker’s cocking rod. It came to me like this.

my two other, non modified Pre-2k cockers have slight different internals, with the older version having full Sheridan internals and the new one having a stand cocker hammer, instead of a Sheridan hammer. The newer cocker has a very different valve though.

[Cdn_Cuda]

Past the hammer, the valve is the same for both markers. There may be a difference in pre-1997 bodies, but I have no experience with them.

Here is the power tube for both 2k and Pre-2k from valve spring to cocking rod:


And for reference, I’ll note that there are two different valve sizes for cockers/snipers. The 9/16 valve as shown above, for most Pre-2k and 2k bodies, and there is a larger 11/16 valve for 2k5 bodies (half block Black Magic etc) and Trilogy cockers:


The 11/16 valve does not require the use of the valve retention nut and can be disassembled without the use of a cocker valve tool. For the 9/16 valve, so most Pre-2k and 2k bodies you will need a cocker valve tool to remove this nut to access the valve.


And just adding in my early pre-2k valve compared to the standard cocker valve for reference:

[Hellion360]

Nice overview!

[Hellion360]

The earlier Pre-97 autocockers there is often a smaller valve chamber size as well.
These like a shorter valve spring.

[shooter311]

I love theses knowledge dumps. I feel like I knew all this info, but it is definitely the first time I have seen images of everything side by side.

[latches109]

To put things all together, here is the 2k and Pre-2k hammer to cocking rod assembly:


Please ignore the strange spacers on my 2k cocker’s cocking rod. It came to me like that.

This is inaccurate^^

WGP moved to threaded IVGs before the increase in banjo size. Pre-2k bodies can have threaded or non-threaded IVGs.
You can use a non-threaded IVG in a 2k bodies. For example, I use a Belsales rex dialers in many 2k bodies.

IVG weight is negligible when you use an aluminum non-threaded IVG. (OTP made one)
non-threaded bodies have a slightly smoother finish in the lower tube.




The banjo size is really what those terms refer to, wether it was

Pre-2K = 3/8-24 threads
2k = 9/16-24 threads



within the pre-2k group there were a lot of design revisions / editions.
for example pre-95 valves were smaller with shorter valve springs. Stock WGP valve port size increased over the years.
Pre-2k VASAs are squared off - 2k VASAs match the body bevel.

[Cdn_Cuda]

Thank you for correcting that and adding more info.

[Magmoormaster]

I'll add a bit to this.

There are essentially 3 different step changes in autococker design; pre-97, pre-2k, and 2k+. Pre-97 bodies have smaller valve chambers (see photos below), and lack the threading for the IVG. From the factory, they also lacked threaded timing rods, detents, and the lug adjustment hole. 97-99 bodies had these, but still had the smaller banjo bolts. 2k+ bodies have the new banjo threads, and came with new back blocks with shorter bolts. Small milling details happened with each generation, but they're much less important.

Here are some cutaway bodies showing the different sizes of valve chambers with each model:


Pre-97


97-99


2k+

[Cdn_Cuda]

Thanks for adding! Great info and pictures.

[Cdn_Cuda]

Also shows me the inside of the LPR, which is great as I am trying to rebuild the pneumatics!

[Daltech]

Awesome write up guys. Very helpful reference and pictures. Thanks.

[Cdn_Cuda]

Found two more pre-2k cockers and I’ve updated the thread with more info and more pictures!

[Pump&Run]

This is a well put together thread. I look forward to the updates!

[Cdn_Cuda]

Most the updates should be up already! If there’s any questions or corrections post away!

[Cdn_Cuda]

As I work on restoring/ rebuilding one of these I’ll
comment of various issues I find. I’ve decided to build the oldest body that has no modifications. Let see how I do fair! I think I’ll build it as a Sniper first and then a mech, depending on how the pneumatic rebuilds go.