Quick Compo - 2k vs Pre-2k Cockers

[Cdn_Cuda]

Hit the first minor a gag as someone had previously mentioned. The threaded portion of the hammer lug is too thick at the threads. As this body has not lug adjustment hole I was just going to flip a stand hammer’s lug. Going to have to use the hammer from my unmodified ‘96 as it has a narrow lug. The modified ‘96 can use a standard hammer though, but ai need a threadless IVG before I can get the second body built.

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[latches109]

old hammer lug is 10-32 ( pictured center - gen 1 belsales) - if you do not have a top lug nut hole adjustment on the body then the lug is flipped - but really it's a 10-32 set screw you can get at any hardware store. Some people got fancy and stripped the threads that made contact with the sear.

new is 1/4-28 (pictured right of center gen 2, and left of center gen 3)

[Cdn_Cuda]

That's very helpful!

[Pump&Run]

As I work on restoring/ rebuilding one of these I’ll
comment of various issues I find. I’ve decided to build the oldest body that has no modifications. Let see how I do fair! I think I’ll build it as a Sniper first and then a mech, depending on how the pneumatic rebuilds go.

I was hoping to provoke such a continued endeavor. Though it is not my doing as you Sir had the mindset all along as this is your motivation and I compliment you on that.

[Cdn_Cuda]

Picked up a threadless IVG from a local with an exquisite marker collection. (Yes, tried to lure him back to MCB) and have the Sniper and Cocker moving along. Still need to play around with internal springs.

Rebuilt the pneumatics for the cocker. Firpo’s YouTube videos are a great resource on how to. Went with the 2k LPR as had one kicking around and matches the length of the ram nicely. Suits the build, as long as it works.

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[Cdn_Cuda]

Got both the mech and pump sealed up. Need to figure out the timing on the mech as I’ve never used one of the older brass 3-ways. At first I was using an unthreaded 3-way rod and coupler, but switched to a threaded for ease of use.

Sniper needs some paint out through it and likely some spring adjustments. Have a feeling it’s shooting low.

[Jordan]

The older c-clip 3ways can be quite nice if polished out and stem seals matched up to the internals... they have a pretty short throw. Timing is the same as any other 3way, in my limited experience. (I haven't used any of the current 3ways on the market, just the early to mid 2k era 3ways.)

[Cdn_Cuda]

So I find myself struggling with the C-clip 3-way. Changed to a threaded timing rod, but can’t seem to find a good spot for it. I think my rod length is too long as set as I am getting barely any movement of the timing rod or it will
just sort of jam. The pot metal frame leave a bit to desire in its movement as well. Might be better to get it all working with my Shocktech frame first.

I’m not a huge fan of these c-clip 3-way and may switch to a brass 2k 3-way as I found them easier to work with. I want to keep the front end brass for the asthetic. It have the pneumatic cover though, so when it doubt I can throw an ID 3-way on just got ease of use and adjustment.

On a side note if you forget to put the c-clip back in and air the marker up that cap goes flying.

Update: Switched the trigger frame and confirmed the 3-way was set way too long. Adjusted the coupler back and have proper movement now and the back block cycles. It wasn’t releasing the sear at first, but a quick adjusted fixed that, so the old beast is up and running now. Once I get it all working nicely I’ll see about switching back to the potmetal frame.

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[Cdn_Cuda]

Breaker the golden rule of Autocockers, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, I’ve come across an anomaly with my Banjo bolts. The tolerances on the ‘92 cocker are tighter than on the ‘96 cocker, so much so that the banjo bolt from the ‘96 and an ANS expansion port won’t fit. The ‘92 banjo will fit in the ‘96 body without issue.

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[Cdn_Cuda]

Finally got to get the Chronograph out and test these pre-2ks. Both had the same issue, velocity around 180fps. I focused on the unreg’d sniper and put the original valve spring back in and tried to get velocity with the main springs. After some guessing and checking, went with a red madman spring which brought velocity up to about 260 with the IVG out. Should be able to fine tune it a little more.

[Cdn_Cuda]

Need to see what pressure the Palmer is set to. I have a tester, just need to use it. I replaced the original valves with standard WGP valves.

[latches109]

post reg pressure
and using short valve body springs?

[Cdn_Cuda]

Reg is at 300 and I’ll have to double check the valve spring.

[latches109]

300 should be enough. You’ll need a short valve spring like the one AKA sells. Do a hammer drop only shot for your FPS readings - get to desired fps. Then start timing. When you time too tight your fps will drop.

[Cdn_Cuda]

I do have the orignal short valve spring in it. I’ll start with the firm ID spring and see how it goes.

[Magmoormaster]

300 PSI on a sotck pre-2k body is borderline impossible to get to velocity. Remember the valve chamber is much smaller, even with a volumizer. Stock 97-99 cockers, which are the first years WGP included an HPR with their guns, ran at 450 PSI. Since your bodies are older and haven't been bored out, they'll probably run even higher.

[latches109]

Start your HPR pressure low and increase the HPR pressure until the FPS drops, then add spring tension via the IVG to increase the FPS.

[Cdn_Cuda]

I'll monkey around and see where I get. I just got my scuba tank filled so have lots of air to mess with.

[Brokeass_baller]

Do what latches109 says. That's how you properly sweet spot it.

[Cdn_Cuda]

Right now I’m sitting below 400psi on the main reg and shooting 255-260 approx. Need to get some moderately round paintballs to continue testing.

[batmite]

WGP moved to threaded IVGs before the increase in banjo size. Pre-2k bodies can have threaded or non-threaded IVGs.

I was about to say this as well, I have a pre-2k with a threaded IVG. (Serial 66473)

[Anonym]

From my recollection:

1997 was first year to come with a factory ball detent. The anodizing was more of a matte/dust where previous years were more glossy. They still had the squared, slab sided body, the 3-piece sledgehammer, brass 3-way with c-clips, and the 3-piece brass ram. The backblock was angled instead of a block. The shroud cover was the first year to have slotted "gills" and they were vertical. IVG was non-threaded. Barrel was "bull" contoured (most had bare or clear anodized threads and bore, with exterior gloss black). Actuator rod was threaded stainless, and the pump and cocking rods were also stainless. Pump rod had a "collar" for the female threads. Bolt was knurled and had 3 o-rings with small transfer port and opening. Bolt pin had an anodized black head with the blue pushpin. Frame went composite vs the previous cast. I believe this is the first year for Nelson springs as well.


(this is a 1997 body with a 1998 shroud and older pneumatics/frame)

1998 was a 1997 with sloped and rounded sight rail. The pneumatic shroud was slotted at an angle. IVG was still cartridge style and non-threaded. Barrel was lightened (straight contour with the shroud bump in the center (anodized inside and out). I think the pump rod dropped the collar for the female threads this year. Bolt pin was stainless steel. I think they came standard with the HP WGP regulator this year, although it didn't come with a bottomline set-up.



1999 had the 1998 body that had the threaded IVG. I think this is the year they "mirrored" the pump slot on the right side (no more "slab side") but that might have been 2000. Thinking a bottomline came factory this year. The bolt was "ribbed" and dropped the o-ring on the nose.Not much else changed as I can recall.



2000 went with the larger valve chamber/banjo bolt. They adopted the newer 2-piece sledgehammer, brass one-piece 3-way, and the brass 2-piece (solid nose) ram. The barrel had a "bulb" at the end and the recessed portion under the shroud was contoured/radiused. The shroud went plastic. The backblock and bolt was shortened. I think this was the year you could get gloss anodized red and green, they introduced vert feeds for non-STO models, and maybe optional 45 composite frames, but probably 2001. WGP Jewell added to the side of the body.



I thought the 1998-1999 years were the best years, but I did like some of the benefits the 2k model brought for lower pressured set-ups.

These are what I would consider the "transition years"...

[batmite]

1999 had the 1998 body that had the threaded IVG. I think this is the year they "mirrored" the pump slot on the right side (no more "slab side") but that might have been 2000. Thinking a bottomline came factory this year. The bolt was "ribbed" and dropped the o-ring on the nose.Not much else changed as I can recall.

Mine has a threaded IVG with a 'slab side'. (Serial 66473)
So maybe mid to late 99?
Maybe we should get a serial database going if there is not one already!

Interesting link here:
https://docfirepaintball.com/blogs/a...er-dating-by-s

[I-tech]

This is an awesome thread 👏 Thank you guys for the information.