My 1993 autococker is driving me nuts.

[Walker]

This is how your old Cocker would have looked originally:



Mine is s# 9782.....

[$L!mBo]

Before you switched the hoses, and you aired up the gun, it would hold your back block , back?
just wondering bc you never even listed that as one of the issues you were having.

Also, those internals most likely need higher pressure than usual.

I would recommend new internals. Autocockerparts.com silver kit. i dont think it matters much pre2k/2k+ ive used them in both and still had great results.

Set your reg (palmers stabilizer? from your pics in another thread) to 350, RVA 2 turns in from all the way out.

Make sure your lpr is turned up far enough to fully cock the gun.

[Cdn_Cuda]

If it’s helpful I have a thread in which I update the internals of a Pre-2k cocker.

https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/paintball-news-aa/the-armory/autocockers/379062-quick-compo-2k-vs-pre-2k-cockers

[$L!mBo]

ah yes forgot to mention some spring trimming is a possibility.

[tracythompsontampa]

When you gas it up, if the following happens, your hoses are correct:

1. Ram sucks the back block forward, trigger not pressed.
2. Press trigger and ram pushes block to the rear and cocks the hammer.

If you are not getting any air down the barrel when you fire the gun, one (or more) of three things are probably wrong.

1. The valve is not aligned correctly and no (or limited) gas is getting to the bolt. If the valve has two ports, one should point directly upwards, and the other should be under the retaining set screw on the bottom of the body. Pull the set screw (not gassed up) and look and see if the bottom port in the valve is visible. You should be able to look in and see the valve pin.

2. The bolt is in wrong, however this shouldn't be the issue as with that type of bolt it shouldn't matter.

3. You are using the wrong length bolt. I.E. - A 2k bolt in a pre-2k setup, or a pre-2k bolt in a 2k setup. The back block shown in the 1st post needs a pre2k bolt.

The top bolt is a pre-2k ANS, the bottom is a 2k Shocktech:

My bolt it like the one on top.
I think there's something going on with this valve.

I can't find the bolt length next to a ruler online but mine is 6 3/8

[Walker]

It's not the length of the bolt, but the distance between the pin hole and the air passage. If it is too long, or too short, it doesn't align with the airport from the valve to the upper tube. The distance between the pin hole at the back, and the front of the bolt can also play into a properly shooting gun, but has no effect on the air passageway.

[tracythompsontampa]

This is how your old Cocker would have looked originally:



Mine is s# 9782.....

My hoses are right. And I got 9874.

I think you're right on the bolt tho. I remember having a 2k and turning the bolt upside down made the gun cycle the way it is.

I'll just buy one of each stock pre2k and 2k bolt to test

[tracythompsontampa]

When you gas it up, if the following happens, your hoses are correct:

1. Ram sucks the back block forward, trigger not pressed.
2. Press trigger and ram pushes block to the rear and cocks the hammer.

If you are not getting any air down the barrel when you fire the gun, one (or more) of three things are probably wrong.

1. The valve is not aligned correctly and no (or limited) gas is getting to the bolt. If the valve has two ports, one should point directly upwards, and the other should be under the retaining set screw on the bottom of the body. Pull the set screw (not gassed up) and look and see if the bottom port in the valve is visible. You should be able to look in and see the valve pin.

2. The bolt is in wrong, however this shouldn't be the issue as with that type of bolt it shouldn't matter.

3. You are using the wrong length bolt. I.E. - A 2k bolt in a pre-2k setup, or a pre-2k bolt in a 2k setup. The back block shown in the 1st post needs a pre2k bolt.

The top bolt is a pre-2k ANS, the bottom is a 2k Shocktech:

I think my bolt is correct. The measurement lines up with yours
I'm starting to hate this gun 😆

[$L!mBo]

autocockers have a steep
learning curve but once
you figure them out, they are the best. its a great feeling being part of the special club of folks that know how they work and have their gun figured out
i know you are close, dont give up.

my main advice is still new lower internals, i think you have the right bolt

[Walker]

This hole in the valve does not pass air, and is the one the retaining set screw should sit in:



Another thing, are you absolutely certain the HPR is working? If it is not flowing properly, you can get the same indication. Somehow air is not getting to the tip of the bolt. There are only a few blocking points.

1. Tank pressure (try another tank)
2. Tank regulator (try another tank)
3. on/off ASA (try another one or a duckbill)
4. HPR (Stabiliser), common failure point. (try another HPR)
5. valve (misaligned), common issue (doublecheck)
6 Bolt (passage not aligned with valve), common issue (shouldn't be a problem with that bolt)

I have an allen wrench that is long enough to reach the air passage in the upper tube, from the back of the gun. Once I put the valve in and tighten it down, I slip the allen in and drop the short end into the air passage. It should drop in easily. If it doesn't the valve/passage is not aligned. Even though I KNOW I put it in right, I always check. There has been a couple times that I was wrong about getting it aligned properly.

[$L!mBo]

my process of elimination in this particular case, at this particular point:

-new lower tube guts
-double
check the reg is putting out ~350psi

[Walker]

I'm a bit of a purist. If it came to me complete, I try to make it work as is. Once that is done, then I may, or may not, make changes. But, it is an Autococker. You can replace everything with modern parts easily, and they will work.

[Walker]

This oldie ran fine with Sheridan internals, and a 750psi HPA tank. No HPR involved.

https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/buy-sell-trade/mechanical-semi-autos/619799-1995-autococker-sold

[$L!mBo]

your hammer spring does not look like it is strong enough to open the valve sufficiently.

[tracythompsontampa]

Well I put on the oem front pneumatics after cleaning and rebuilding. Same issue. I mixed up the ram and 3 way and palmers lpr reg to see if I could pin point it.

I did order some different springs. I'm going to order that internals kit someone mentioned. If that doesn't fix it, it's going to end up as wall art.

But thank you guys for all the help.

[MullerTime]

Hmm if it is cycling well but not pushing much air to the bolt, I would make sure your valve is clocked correctly so that the air hole in the valve lines up with the hole to the top tube in the body.

To do this, make sure the set screw indentation is facing down so that the open hole is facing up to the top tube. Walker posted a picture of the set screw indentation in the valve above. Then make sure the set screw locks the valve in place so it doesn't rotate when you turn the jam nut.

Also I agree with others to check the HPR pressure. If your reg is set to high or is creeping because the reg seat is toast, the high pressure will keep the valve from opening enough to provide much air to the bolt.

[tracythompsontampa]

Hmm if it is cycling well but not pushing much air to the bolt, I would make sure your valve is clocked correctly so that the air hole in the valve lines up with the hole to the top tube in the body.

To do this, make sure the set screw indentation is facing down so that the open hole is facing up to the top tube. Walker posted a picture of the set screw indentation in the valve above. Then make sure the set screw locks the valve in place so it doesn't rotate when you turn the jam nut.

Also I agree with others to check the HPR pressure. If your reg is set to high or is creeping because the reg seat is toast, the high pressure will keep the valve from opening enough to provide much air to the bolt.

The valve is set right. I used the Allen key to keep it aligned. I even removed the pin thing to make sure it's lining up with the bolt and it's fine.

It has to has to be the front pneumatics. The old ones and the ans ones are probably shot.

[Toestr]

The pneumatics will have nothing to do with low velocity. In fact I would turn the LPR off completely until you get you velocity issue figured out then deal with tuning the pneus.

[heyzeus]

For hoses, it’s not just a matter of slider frame pulling backwards vs hinge frame pushing forwards, the type of 3-way matters. Do you have a 2 o-ring vs 3 o-ring 3-way?

slider frame + 2 o-ring: rear 3-way hose connects to front of ram.
hinge frame + 2 o-ring: rear 3-way hose connects to rear of ram.
slider frame + 3 o-ring: rear 3-way hose connects to rear of ram.
hinge frame + 3 o-ring: rear 3-way hose connects to front of ram.

[Socalpumpballer]

I think you should start from the beginning before ordering a bunch of parts. Because there is no reason to get a different bolt of yours is pre 2k spec. Getting a lower parts kit isn’t going to do much for you if your lower tube isn’t threaded for an ivg. You’ll need a dialer for Nelson springs and you’ll need to have the body drilled for an adjustment hole.Also do you have a picture of your gun completely set up with an air system mounted and what HPR you’re using? Or a video of how it’s currently cycling? I think we’re missing some pretty simple steps to diagnose the issue.

assuming everything is cycling properly and the valve is in the correct orientation. low velocity could simply be a hammer lug and ivg adjustment issue.

simplest thing you can do is turn the lpr off completely, manually cock the gun, load a ball, close the bolt and shoot. If it’s still sounds starved for air or low velocity (assuming no ball rollout) then turn your ivg up. There is no reason Sheridan lowers should be choking air. This will also halfway diagnose any issues with sear engagement that may be dropping the hammer too soon causing low velocity when using it in semi auto. From there you can move on to worrying about the pneumatics and timing

[OpusX]

...simplest thing you can do is turn the lpr off completely, manually cock the gun, load a ball, close the bolt and shoot. If it’s still sounds starved for air or low velocity (assuming no ball rollout) then turn your ivg up.

This was my thought. Get the timing out of the mix and start treating her like a Sniper just to get the velocity figure out.

After that get it to drop the hammer very early in the trigger stroke and then fiddle with the lpr pressure and 3way timing.

It will work. You have the technology.