Ideal autococker design?

[Frmrspec]

If you could change something about autococker/e-cocker design, what would it be?

me personally I always felt the frame was a bit too far forward… I understand 100% for the necessity of its position but I have ran my autocockers with mini front blocks (aka extended) for years.. and always felt the balance was a bit off with the hopper.. maybe that’s just because I’ve grown so accustomed to other platforms as well but I always dream of the standard VA setup but the grip is 3/4” back

[boomersruckus]

Id make it an emek

[Jonnydread]

The hard thing about making cockers objectively "better" is that the joy of using them is totally subjective. They're fun and quirky and have personality, something that Gamma Core markers are lacking in my experience. I personally don't like overly light setups and have a much easier time shooting my slab snipers, but I fully acknowledge that I'm an outlier in a lot of my paintball preferences. If we are talking pure performance it's really hard to beat a GRN marker with a Gamma, but I primarily place recreational paintball so squeezing out every drop of performance isn't the goal as much as going out and having a silly old time is.

[boomersruckus]

That right there is one of the big reasons I think peeps still love the cockers. They are choked full of personality. That and the fact that they do have to be treated right in order to perform at their best. I had some mud behind the slide trigger on an 02 vert feed I had preventing a consistent pull and it would short stroke on occasion. I had another that would leak from the 3 way until you pulled the trigger a time or 2. Never fixed it because it chrono'd very consistent. Also, the slap it makes when going ham on them is nice. Even across the field you can tell a cocker is in use. While I am older and prefer the lighter bland and plain emek over my cockers, I can still appreciate that people revere them as a platform.

[cheapguitarscheapthrills]

Autocockers are like muscle cars. Sure they're not the fastest out there anymore, but damn do they put a smile on your face.

[autococker04]

The way that I hold most guns doesn’t work with autocockers. The ram pinches my thumb with my dumb monkey grip.

[BrickHaus]

On this note. The first nice cocker I built up I had a similar issue, but with the timing rod. I'd grip the frame with my offhand and put pressure on the timing rod, causing a 3 way leak.

[XEMON]

Ideal autococker design?

... Sovereign ...

[Frmrspec]

Damn right! lol perhaps with more elegant air routing

[Grendel]

I counter the Blazer.

[flyweightnate]

IIRC Doc moved a sear back to create more space for the spring, lightening the stroke. A good start.

I think the 3-way needs to be integrated, with internal passages from LPR to 3-way.

The Blazer was closer but the timing rod is too flexible. A threaded barrel Blazer with a WGP or AKA style timing link and a narrower body (LPR under the barrel) would be a lot of fun.

[MrBarraclough]

If someone were to make a new Blazer in the way you describe, it would definitely be "Shut up and take my money!" time.

[flyweightnate]

It has crossed my mind to commission one...

[Jonnydread]

I know they're polarizing, but I feel like the Trilogy did a great job with simplifying the pneumatics. Having an integrated front block took a lot of the pain in the assery out of timing. I know Magmoormaster would have some input on this.

[Trbo323]

Extended front grip, karni spacing, with it without the angled reg, user choice

Mid block

Sleeve the lower tube and give it more valve options, not just different manufacturers but completely different valves. Everything except for the mq valves are a form of "hammer smacks thing to let air go down the barrel" it would be cool to have a spool valve option.

RT

Pneumatics placement options while still having the ability to choose which pneumatics to use

Sent from my motorola edge 2024 using Tapatalk

[Ecapnation]

The trilogy was peak cocker design..... If you made one with a clamping feed neck, integrated short throw 3-way and an adjustable lpr you have perfection

[Ecapnation]

And yet my big hands those are great

[Chuck E Ducky]

The massive drop I between the trigger opening and marker. The closer the web of your hand is to the Barrel line the more natural a marker point shoots. Ergonomically designed trilly with a nice frame and functional detents 👌🏼

[JonM]

Swapping out the 1.5 frame for a traditional slider was the best thing I did to mine.

[boomersruckus]

It would be cool to have the hammer smacks valve replaced with a ram that opens and closes the valve. The ram that moves the back block re-imagined internally to move the valve cup. Then you could remove the sear. You would need a QEV to dump air pressure so as to allow for that re-imagined valve to run as fast as you could pull the trigger which activates the 3 way to activate the internal ram. It works in my head but that doesnt say very much in all honesty.

[devilzcall]

Closed Bolt Ego you say?

[MrBarraclough]

So basically, trying to figure out an elegant way of mechanically limiting dwell on an Ego?

[flyweightnate]

Mechanical Excal.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Functional detent would be great.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I feel like a functional breach detent is key with anything new today. Simple solution would be a longer double wire detent make it longer with two humps slot the bolt in the detent area. One to prevent chopping one to hold small paint on a large bore and stop roll outs. Or a plate to hold orings like CCM / ASP dose. Two piece body sandwich them in the bottom of the breach

[MrBarraclough]

I've been wondering why no one ever (as far as I can see) experimented with lengthening the top tube on the cocker so that you could have a forward breech with a second detent behind the barrel, with the ball sitting there when the bolt is forward.

[flyweightnate]

Azodin markers and Sterlings are like this... and don't have the detent there, either. It makes for a rough transition into the barrel at full gas pressure, which is an idea I've never liked.

[Magmoormaster]

I know they're polarizing, but I feel like the Trilogy did a great job with simplifying the pneumatics. Having an integrated front block took a lot of the pain in the assery out of timing. I know Magmoormaster would have some input on this.

Indeed

The trilogy is without a doubt peak autococker design, and Bud Orr himself agrees. I do think there are some things that could improve it, though. There's the obvious clamping feedneck adn adjustible regs (though I don't see that as a negative per se). I agree with the OP that the trigger frame on cockers is too far forward. I sketched out something like 15 years ago that would have fixed that, not that I had any idea how to make it work lol. But the old Illusions did it. You could then mini cut the body and run either a mini front block for the extended reach feel, or drill a VASA further back and keep the closer spacing, which I still prefer.

Hoseless would be nice. Unfortunately, the Nummech frames don't work on a trilogy. I'd also argue that the Nummech frames had some issues with the reg being too sensitive and the plate not being chromed. But I digress.

The other thing I'd love to see is a manifold on the pneumatics like the SR. I'm really surprised that idea was never revisited.

So yeah, my ideal cocker would essentially be a trilogy with a hoseless frame, the frame and VASA moved back, with a manifold on the pneus. Throw in a Moprh or Laz valve and a delrin hammer. I think realistically, if this is to be a "ideal" cocker, it should be midblocked. Not that I prefer midblocked cockers, but it is objectively better.

Yeah. That would be a cool gun.

[Meleager7]

Doing away with the Ram and making the Bolt itself the ram, like the Sovereign gun does, seemed like a natural progression of closed bolt autococking platform.

The sovereign did so , with pretty ugly external hosing though.

An ideal next gen autococking gun might be internal gas routes back to to the bolt area, and a Sovereign ram-like bolt assembly.

[The Inflicted]

I'm surprised so few people have mentioned the Resurrection. Other than its lack of an sight rail, and the need for Simon's hammer fix, I thought that one was really well refined.

[Frmrspec]

The Resurrection is a tough one.. It was a mostly great out of the box shooter but shitty manufacturing/ design choices put a sour taste in many peoples mouths....

The hammer issue being one, the propietary parts being another.. the fact that people couldnt just throw on their favorite frame, bolt, etc... their oversized bores made most 11/16 valves leak, and most aftermarket bolts have blowback.. A shitty HPR.. etc etc etc... and then everything thing further went to hell when kee start selling their blems

[Jonnydread]

Frmrspec hit the nail on the head. The Ressi/E-sniper on their initial release were wonky enough it turned me off. That combined with lukewarm experiences with Empire in general soured me on them, even though I know they're solid markers with a little TLC.

[Ecapnation]

Nah. Humpy trigger feel I bought one new and ditched it after one use. Everything about the ressy trigger geometry just felt off

[minimag03]

A guy on Facebook had a custom cocker body and bolt made which moved the hopper forward / frame back. It's was an interesting build. I'll post pics here if I find one.

[Frmrspec]

minimag03 this one?