Palmers Stabilizer

[BlindFaith429]

Just curious what the intent was for these. I assume it was to regulate the air to a constant pressure, especially when using CO2 12 grams.

Were these around prior to the VSC kits, so the only option to running a reg was bottom-line or built into the valve?

Or were these more meant to be used in conjunction with a "California Constant Air" set-up, with a larger, unregulated CO2 tank?

With regulated HPA tanks, I assume these arent really popular or needed anymore, correct?

[jincay]

I will say that mine failed more than once, I chrono'd shooting 430fps and never used a pps stab again.

[Jordan]

I kind of remember an airsmith building one out of a Stab and then as it got more popular, PPS starting making them.

[Chuck E Ducky]

You talking about the Palmers Phantom specific Regulated valve body? It’s just a regulator designed to keep input pressure consistent. It works as intended regulates air or Co2. Dose it do anything depends who you ask and what environment you play in. I don’t believe the Phantom requires a reg.

[Jonnydread]

I like using an inline reg during the warmer months to minimize the impact of CO2 spikes. I use an ancient crappy Sheridan reg set at 850psi. It has def. helped wild velocity swings. I had a lot of problems with velocity dropping significantly on super hot days, I think the pressure spike was closing the valve prematurely. Not 100% necessary, but can be nice in certain situations.

[BlindFaith429]

Thanks for all the replies. Just trying to expand my knowledge.

I figured they were more popular when CO2 was used more often, and regulating that would be more beneficial.

Don't really see them often anymore, but I can see the need being much less now-a-days.

[Chuck E Ducky]

There wasn’t many of them made. It acts the same way as a stand alone reg would just in a more compact marker specific application. Functional wise it’s no different then having a reg put in any other configuration. They bring a premium because they are rare not out of necessity.

As far as the Phantom goes you don’t run into issues unless you are really playing in extreme temperatures. Phantom valves can over pressurize and choke when it’s super super hot out. But most people don’t play in that extreme of weather to even have that issue. I feel like it’s more of a feel good measure for people use to having one then anything. Makes chrono adjustment a lil easier I guess. You can just dial the input pressure up or down vs adjusting the TPC. You might see a lil more consistency over the chrono but it’s nothing that makes a difference actually playing. There are way more variables that come into play then the +/- 5 FPS you might see over the chrono. Phantom is a simple design I like to keep it simple. But that’s the best part about the Phantom is making it your own. It’s not going to hurt it that’s for sure.

[BigRed]

The Phantom's a well built purpose marker. There's been some nice improvements like the anti kink hammer, TPC, FeeDummy's detents and Aggroman's Brass pump shims...regulators aren't one of them. Other then that run it in your preferred style stock class, VSC or open class and it won't let you down.

edit...better add ASP body detents to my list too.

[Slim]

To answer your questions...
1) the intent is to stabilize the pressure going into the valve body. (Some insist that it also helps vaporize liquid CO2 into a gaseous state, but it is my understanding that the physical state of CO2 is predicated upon the temperature, not by any mechanical means, which would call into question this claim.)
2) I don't know when this specific stab was introduced, but as this model incorporates a valve body into the design, it could be configured in a VSC set up or anything with a bottom line (forwards or backwards).
3) You would need to ask Palmer's about why they came up with a Phantom-specific stabilizer, but it's highly doubtful their motives involved the "California CA" rig as that fad was pretty short lived in the grand scheme of things. I'd guess that the PPS Phantom stab debuted well after that (late 1990s/early 2000s).
4) with a regulated HPA tank there would be no need for this unit.

To clear up some confusion here, the PPS Phantom stab was never a rare item. They were always easily available on the PPS website and are still listed there, though they seem to be currently out of stock. Several years ago, three of my Phantoms each had one. My primary has one on it now. I would suspect that the perception that these may be rare is due to the obscene price point (+$150) that Palmer's charges. It's important to note that the price was even higher 10 years ago, and I've often wondered what idiot (besides myself X3) would spend almost as much money on an accessory than the gun itself. Especially when that accessory never provided remarkable performance gains.

In a nutshell, here is all you really need to know. These units are high-quality, well-built, easy to maintain and do provide the luxury of stabilizing the output pressure during dramatic shifts in temperature throughout the day. During the spring and fall here in New England, mornings can start off in the low 30s to 40s and end up in the high 80s during the afternoon. When using 12-grams, this means paying close attention to chono readings throughout the day so you're not chronoing at 350FPS at 3:30PM in the afternoon when you originally chrono'd at 265FPS six hours earlier. The use of a stab simply means that it's less likely you'll need to adjust your gun for these wider temperature shifts. That's it. Any gains realized in efficiency or shot consistency may be marginal at best. At least I haven't witnessed any huge performance boosts and I've been using them for almost 20 years. Two important things to note - first, on my guns I had to use a higher tension red spring from CCI with the PPS Phantom stab. I do not know why. All I know is that the stronger spring created optimal performance for the gun I was using it on. Others may have had different experiences. Second, the PPS Phantom stab has both a micro gauge (what I call a "ballpark" gauge given how inaccurate these things are), as well as an external velocity adjustment. It's been my experience that this external velocity adjustment can actually "fine tune" your FPS far better than the factory CCI internal velocity adjustment. Like a LOT better and far easier! In my mind, it's been a great feature and helps justify the price tag (or at least that's what I like to tell myself after I look at my bank statements and start to cry).

Bottomline (from a CO2 aspect - and I'll be specific and say 12-grams): It's a quality unit that provides a luxury feature at a high price point. Yes, it's nice to have, but unless you've got a lot of cash burning a hole in your wallet, it may not be worth the investment. If you don't live in a region that experiences large temperature shifts, then it's not going to be much help.

[Grendel]

Ran a Sideline PPS Stab on a Phantom build that was great. Very consistent and easy adjustments. Was it absolutely needed? Nope not running one on any of my current Phantoms but it was a beautiful setup. Will I do it again? Yup I have two of my Phantoms that already are slated for "upgrades" to using Sideline Regs (open class and spring fed). Phantoms like any marker can benefit from a regulator, what Mike built was a better quality but basically generic "Nelson Clone" and any marker can benefit from consistent pressure behind the valve. While it is not absolutely necessary and is expensive I like them.

[Slim]

While I know there are quite a few fans out there, I never liked the PPS sideline stabilizer. For me, when given the choice of running a built-in stab (incorporated into the valve body), or having a big hunk of metal hanging off the side of the valve body that's connected by a few NPT threads of a male-to-male connecter, it's been a no-brainer. Beyond the awkward visual aesthetic, and throwing off the balance of the gun, my concern would always be having the unit twist out of position while under pressure and the stress that is put on the threads of the valve body. It is only aluminum after all. This goes double for when I see players who run a "side saddle" ICD lever changer off the side of the valve body. Seems like only a matter of time before a trip, slip or fall will spin or damage that male-to-male connector and potentially damage the threads of the valve body. It just doesn't''t seem worth it when there are far more sturdy options available. But, as the Phantom is the paintball tinkerer's dream gun, players can configure it whichever way works best for them.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I agree the biggest issue for me with a side saddle setup is I aim down the side. So with a side saddle is literally in my line of sight when aiming. I would definitely want the one Incorporated into the valve body or off the bottom of the grip frame. I was never a right or left feed guy so I can’t train myself to look over the top of anything also the reason I can’t shoot back bottle for nothing. That ICD side Seattle setup is very robust tho Slim I think he red locks it. Mine would not move at all and the Lever changer is so lite and tight to the body I don’t see it being a super big issue unless you fall on it or something. That reg definitely puts more stress with it’s extra leveraged and You got the line that could catch on things. I would definitely run the Palmer reg it off the bottom of the grip frame if I had the choice vs the side of the valve body.

[Walker]

If I were going to run a Stabe on a Phantom, I would run a bottomline female, or the valve body integrated...


Walker

One I owned, 16 years ago....

[Chuck E Ducky]

See the side reg probably works on this with the right feed body because you already are aiming over the top with the right feed setup. So it’s not really getting in the way.

[Slim]

Here's a shot from about 10 years ago of one of my older Phantoms. As you can see, the PPS Phantom stab provides a nice, clean look, doesn't throw off the balance of the gun and also provides an easy view of your ballpark pressure...

[Cunha]

Female stab is the most out of the way by far.

[flyweightnate]

Yeah, just needs a wedge mount.