About to place an order but have a few questions

[The Jayster]

Finally!

I'm taking the plunge and will be placing an order with CCI (love their Phantom builder by the way). But before doing so I'd like to get some advice from you friendly Phantom-owning folks. The main reason I'm getting one is that I now play at a field where there are only a few members and as such we can be expected to be mixed-in with rentals (I prefer of course to play exclusively amongst equipment owners, but what can you do?). So I don't need a tool to dominate, as I'll be happy to score a few hits here and there.

I was therefore thinking the following: I'd order a basic, 'old-school' version: standard pump, M16 grip, nickel hard line with vertical ASA. I intend to use a 13ci tank. I was thinking of ordering all parts in a single colour other than black. On to my questions:

- Should I pay extra for the Freak boring (I already have inserts) or the included rings work well enough?
- Would the aforementioned set-up be awkward to use without a T-stock? While I couldn't shoulder the gun, it would keep it light and compact.
- How's the basic pump? Would upgrading to a retro undercocking/undercocking pump be worth it? If so, what's the difference between the retro UC and 'standard' UC pumps?
- Do they still offer 'old-school' left or right feedneck body options? Have not seen that on the builder.
- If I decided later on to order a whole batch of upgardes after having played a few games with it, could I order them anodized to match the gun I have?

Thanks!

[Rusty Brass]

Do it! Phantoms are awesome basic guns and don't generally scare renters too much.
As to your questions -
- I like the freak option but then I roll 12 grams on my Phantoms so it helps with efficiency. With a 13ci freaks probably aren't necessary. It'd be one less thing to upgrade if you wanted to run stock class in the future though.
- T-Stocks are a purely personal preference kind of thing. If you auto-trigger you'll want one for sure. Phantoms shoot just fine without them if you're aiming every shot.
- Go with the undercocker. I like the standard UC more than the retro. It just fits the hand better. Take out one of the two return springs to lighten the stroke.
- No idea.
- No idea again but if they offer it now they'll probably offer it in the future.

[SignOfZeta]

1: There is no CCI, it’s now Extreme Velocity

2: The (usually) included rings, IMO, are inferior to Freedummy wedgits, nail polish, Freeeq toobs, etc.

3: You don’t need a stock. The vertical bottle will do a great job of stabilizing the gun. I use 3.5oz CO2 in this config. It’s a dream.

4: The basic pump is fine. Go without undercocker and add it later if you want. It’s like half the price of the gun, so if you can do without, do without. The undercockers also make servicing the gun massively worse. Nobody who used a Nelson for the first several decades of their existence ever needed one…maybe you don’t either.

[Phantom87]

1: Agree.
2: *Freak, not Freeeq toobs and they equate to better air efficiency & accuracy.
3: A 3rd point of contact will always be > 2pts of contact. Basic Physics, let’s not lead with false information.
4: Subjective. Servicing isn’t that big of a deal if you know what you’re doing and get proficient with basic maintenance, assembling and disassembling.

[SignOfZeta]

I also misspelled “tubes”. You missed one, Captain Pedantic!

The stock is preference. I’ve shot Nelsons with back bottles and vertical bottles for a long time. Stability isn’t the only thing in the world. Anyone who hasn’t tried a vertical bottle for a while should. I shoot totally from muscle memory. I don’t sight at all and accuracy has never been a problem with me. Some people need a bipod and a laser sight to shoot a round that only goes 200 feet, I guess I’m blessed. I like to be able to move around and tuck in and such and shorter guns make that kind of thing easier. It’s not the most accurate but neither is my wristwatch because I don’t need it.

[JeepDVLZ45]

Welcome to the club!! (Almost)

Phantoms come down to preference. I’m the type of person who had every possible extra to play in any possible configuration before I “found myself”

1 - Freak boring is preference (start the riots!!), instead, send your body out to ASP and have it detent modded — hands down the best mod you can make.

2 - I ran mine with a 13ci horizontal, but I had a “drop forward” and bottom line setup, you could also grab a 9ci and run the tank vertical. The 13ci was a little too bulky for me to run vert (again, personal preference)

3 - I strongly prefer UC kits. Most people like dual rods, I really like the look of the old WEVO style and how small it is, but that’s me. Pump stroke isn’t great, but manageable. And as Zeta said, IC kits make assembly a real PITA.
The UC kits (retro v. standard) are just the shape of the handle (as far as I know)

4 - No stock class L or R body’s, (not even sure about OC) you can contact EV via email directly, they’re good about getting back and helping out.

5 - color match is always tough unless that color is black...just saying. Also keep in mind that used parts on the forum are usually easy to come by….


don’t forget the Phantom pic thread…it’ll help you spend your money.. 😆

https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/p...picture-thread

[Jonnydread]

On point 4: with a little luck ASP may be making a run of stock class Left and Right offset bodies, thread here: https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/p...nterest-thread

[Chuck E Ducky]

So I haven’t ordered a new Phantom since Extreme Velocity took over for Mike.

Should you pay extra for freak bore barrel. My opinion Yes. This will help prevent rollouts, this could also be addressed with an aftermarket ASP detent mod or Free dummy Detent. I find the phantom detent barrel rings to be harder on paint and I like to shoot super brittle paint out of my Phantom. There are down sides to any freak bore barrel you break paint it will never shoot clean the barrel will need to be removed the insert and the section of the barrel it sits in will need to be cleaned because paint will other wise weep from behind the insert until its cleaned making it something difficult to do while still playing. I try and shoot good paint all the time so its not really an issue for me and worth the trade off.

This mod is the best mod for the Phantom. I would choose this over a freak barrel every time. (I use both)
ASP Phantom Detent Modification – Air Soldier Products
This body will allow the use of cocker threaded barrels and has detents. This will also require the use of a U/C kit due to Cocker barrels larger outside diameter
ASP ‘Roundhead’ Cocker Threaded Phantom Body – Air Soldier Products

I need a Stock but if you plan on running compressed air go with a bottom line kit (ASA off the grip frame) the tank will give you something to shoulder if your concerned about that. 800-825PSI tank reg output pressure is the Phantoms Stock silver springs sweet spot. Make sure your HPA tank you use outputs around that and you wont need to swap springs for different air sources like 12g or Co2. (3k 17ci is more then enough for hopper play and will feel like a standard 68 length but still be nice an narrow + like time hydro)

Basic pump works great UC vs over barrel is generally preference. The standard over barrel is the most classic style, UC kits give clearance for different larger OD barrels like cocker threaded ones when using the ASP round head body (cocker /detent moded phantom body) so that's up to you I use both without issues. The stock phantom barrel is one of the best barrels for the phantom it needs no upgrade. (I do prefer the freak bore aka the C-bore variant)

Left feeds are rare most are right but they can be had for cheap if you prefer that style and can find them used. We are working with ASP about doing a run of Left feed round head bodies so that may be an option soon. I personally prefer center feeds myself. This way I can aim down the outside edge on both sides of the bunker. I could never train myself to aim over the top.

Its best to order special colors all in the same batch this way they match. batch to batch variations will occur with any ano work. You can always go with gloss black there is no shortage of parts in gloss black used and most aftermarket parts are gloss black. When you figure out how you want it setup you can always ano or sell it for a fancy ano one.

My personal favorite is the VSC Vertical Stock Class Phantom. You can get an open class hopper adapter for the Stock class bodies to so the marker can go from Stick fed to hopper with one screw. There is even a member here that made one that takes empire feednecks so you can use the empire spring feed too.

Oh and check out the Phantom Show off thread to see how many setup options there are. My first phantom I went with Black figured out what I wanted then worked on finding fancy ano ones in the setups I wanted. Cool thing about the phantom is it can grow with you from Open to Stock Class and any custom setup you can think up. It makes a great pump marker you going to really enjoy it. Keep it clean and lightly oiled and it will only shoot better the more you break it in and get the feel for it.

[The Jayster]

Woa, thank you for the quick and detailed feedback!
I'll digest it all and place a quick order. I'll let you know what I picked!

[Chuck E Ducky]

Your also only 4hrs from this event 100% worth the drive. It's the best Dam paintball money can buy. Defiantly look into a Stock Class Body feed an bucket. You want to see some tricked out Phantoms this is the place to be. Slim’s Spring Stock Classic 2022, May 21-22, Adventure Games, Weare, NH - mcarterbrown.com

Shameless 🔌

[Jonnydread]

It's worth it. Plus you can camp and join in on all the shenanigans and understand why the SC community is so tight... and weird.

[Mr. Hick]

weird: GOOD. Not weird: Prison Sex. Usually.

[Chuck E Ducky]

What happens at Slims stays at Slims

[wunderbarsafari]

I haven't purchased from Extreme Velocity yet, but I've had some correspondence with Jesse about parts and he is very responsive and helpful. I'd suggest you call or email him if you have questions about what he has in stock or what you may want to tack on to your order.

[Jonnydread]

Everyone has pretty much addressed everything, but to add my 2 cents as someone who didn't initially like Phantoms, but now loves them, here are my thoughts:

• The ASP mod is amazing. It's gentle on paint and will stop rollouts down to .675 or so without drama. Well worth the ~$30. The detent rings kinda/sorta work, but they can also make you more likely to shred paint.
• Undercocking kits are a game changer. I had 3 Phantoms that I could never quite get the feel for then finally my 4th Phantom I got the dual-rod UC kit and lo and behold, I can actually hit the broad side of a barn.
• Many people will disagree with me, but Phantoms are meant to be SC. Any time I have tried to shoot an OC Phantom whether it's left, right, or center fed it feels so awkward. Plus if you're mostly playing with regulars and rentals, it'll be a good way to challenge yourself and up your game.
• I have a structured settlement and I need cash now.

[JeepDVLZ45]

What Chuck E Ducky said!

Just toss in a 3-D printed goodie that makes it “rock back” and that’s pretty much how I run mine (took me a long time and wayyyy too many phantoms to figure out what worked for me.)

[Chuck E Ducky]

Rock back weirdo

[The Jayster]

While I like the clean and compact lines a SC configuration provides, I'm very bad at managing very limited paint and air. I once played a few games with a loaned TiPX and I was either running out of air when I had paintballs, or paintballs when I still had air. When I was shooting my upgraded Empire Sniper, I'd run it with a 68 ci (the only bottle I had) and a 200 rd gravity hopper, which was overkill. This time around, I expect to cut the pear in half and run CA with a 13ci and maybe the 50 rd PAL loader I already have. The neat thing where I play is that they have HPA fill stations directly on the field.

I believe that the Phantom runs slightly better on CO2 than HPA, so I'll make sure that the 13ci bottle I get will have an output pressure of at least 800psi. CO2 for me is not an option (I can remember running a 20oz CO2 bottle on my Tippmann Pro-Am back in the early 90's... that tank alone weighed more than any of my current full set-ups... man we have it GOOD today equipment-wise, but I'm digressing...)

The more I think about, and factoring in your comments, I think I'll go full out from the get-go. Using the builder, if I go from a very basic option to a fully loaded set-up, the difference is only about $250.

[The Jayster]

I placed an order. Thank you once again for your feedback. This is what I went with.

[Jonnydread]

Very nice, hope you love it.

[The Jayster]

Little update here. The folks at EV have been very nice, but at this point they don't have enough parts to build a unit (OC) in a single colour, even black. We tried to look at options where the frame might be colour X and the breech colour Y, but we couldn't find something satisfying. The only colour scheme that would do would involve parts with blemishes. As I'm paying for a brand new gun, I declined that option (otherwise I'd just buy a used one, wouldn't I?).

The good news is that they have black breeches and frames coming in within 4-6 weeks. And I might have a scoop here: the breeches will come with the ASP detent mod.

[Ego10Baller]

My very late .02 cents: I personally can’t hit a thing without the UC kit. Absolute game changer as others have mentioned — and well worth the small additional hassle of swapping around parts if you’re constantly changing phantom configurations.

I’ve found a stock to be critical as well. When playing against regulars that are good at the sport, you might only get one shot and having that stock makes a big difference in being able to make that one shot count.

When it comes to freak inserts, buying the C-bore barrels are well worth it if you already have an insert kit. Not having to worry about rollouts/chopped paint with rings/o-ring detents is nice. I’ve never chopped/had a barrel break with my phantom when running freak inserts.

[The Jayster]

Well, I finally got to try my new Phantom on Saturday!

EV installed the HPA (red?) spring as per my request so it was shooting a tad hot. I was easily able to bring it down and I had a steady 280 fps average thereafter. Mine came with the ASP detent mod and I was using a SS 0.689 Freak insert (obviously I got the Freak-ready option).

My first surprise was how quit the marker is, as I was told that HPA was louder, but also how nice the pump stroke was. I expected it to be much stiffer. Before playing the first game, I was shooting different targets to get the hang of the gun and with a little practice I was able to hit what I was aiming at. The gun was intrinsically very accurate.

Yet, during the first few games I could not hit the wide side of a barn! It wasn't the gun's fault, it just that I really needed to get used to a radically new set-up. In one instance, I had outflanked someone who was wide open and sitting maybe less than 50 feet away... and I must have shot 5 or 6 shots and missed him; and every time I fired he didn't know he was fired upon! It was quite comical, actually.

I told myself not to get disappointed and to play at least 4 full games before switching to another gun. I did not order a UC kit nor a .45 frame with stock to see if I could get away with a minimal configuration. My initial thought after my early games was "ok, I'm SO ordering the UC kit, the grip and stock". At the end of the day, I wanted to finish the pod of paintballs I had left and used the Phantom again. Well, this time around the more I played, the more accurate I became. I Still could not rake in the kills (which is not the point when I play pump anyways), but at least I wasn't missing my target in terms of feet, but inches and I did even get a few nice hits in.

I may very well end up ordering more parts from EV, but for now I intend to keep playing with that configuration and give it some time. That being said, I absolutely love my Phantom. I love the tight and elegant design, and how light, nimble and quiet it is. A friend of mine plays with a SC Phantom and when he saw me getting my Phantom out of its bag at for the last few games of the day, asked me "grows on you, doesn't?" Sure does!

[Grendel]

Glad you got it and gotten some trigger time to see how it works for you. Not sure what you were shooting before the Phantom but if it was stacked tube it will take a little time to get used to shooting a single tube, the point of aim is a little different. In addition Phantoms are super light even in Open Class configuration and that can affect your stability when pumping and shooting just takes a little time to adjust muscle memory. I assume you are coming from a primarily semi-automatic background and playing pump is a different mindset so again takes some time to get used to it. Play a few more times before investing heavily in additional parts. Your setup is pretty solid so give it a little time to develop new habits.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Nice setup. If you bump your tank reg pressure up a lil bit (825-850psi) you can use the Stock Silver springs on both HPA and 12g.

I need something to shoulder when I shoot or I can’t hit anything. It takes a lil time to get use to how they aim. They point a lil different. I notice I shoot high a few games when I switche back to my Cocker pumps.

But take the leftover paint and target practice with it a lil bit till you get the feel for them.