Very low Velocity issues

[Prometheus]

I have a newer phantom it’s an Extreme Velocity one and I can’t seem to figure out why it’s shooting so low, and after a few shots doesn’t shoot at all the balls roll out the barrel. I replaced all springs and orings. Put some planet eclipse oil on the rings adjusted velocity with about 2 and half turns to start, I aired it up using 12 grams shot a few balls still seems low velocity. Adjusted velocity very slightly again then it stopped shooting all together again. Balls not even rolling down barrel.

Anyone have any clue what could be happening?

[Criticalhammer]

Has to be asked, when you pull the 12 gram out after nothing shoots how much gas comes out? How cold to the touch is the 12 gram carterage before pulling it out?

The first shot, is it at the desired FPS?

Sounds like you need a stiffer main spring.

[Prometheus]

Brand new spring

[Prometheus]

It’s Deff pretty full. I don’t believe it’s leaking any air. I don’t hear any leaks, and after I took it apart replaced everything it shot about 10 rounds kinda low velocity. Don’t have chrono but would guess in the house around 200. Adjusted it slightly and then the shots were falling out the barrel. Then not shooting at all.

[JeepDVLZ45]

Couple question…

1 - what spring do you have installed?
2 - do you have a hardline or is it a 2.0 frame?

[Prometheus]

Fresh silver springs. And macro line

[Carp]

Shmack seems to be in almost the same boat or at least a very similar boat (choked off 12g wise).

[Shmack]

Thank you Carp for tagging me on this. Im still trying to figure it out. Extreme Velocity has no idea what's going on and I just bought an original power tube assembly to see if that's the problem. I saw someone else mention that the new cup seals EV uses are no good so Ill update once I install that in few days. Personally, I have tried every spring in every location as well as replaced every o ring and seal. Prometheus, are you using airlines or the new phantom 2.0 frame?

[Shmack]

Sorry just saw the previous comment where you mentioned you are using a macro line. Do you have any leaks down the barrel after the first few shots?

[Prometheus]

I don’t notice any leaks. I’ll hook it up again and really listen. I got it used probably a year and half ago. And it would always work fine for a game or so. But gradually lose velocity. Then barely shoot out the barrel at all. And now seems to being it more often. I replaced all springs and orings today. Still the same thing, it’s not like there is a lot of parts. So only thing I can think is to replace the macro line. Just weird how it doesn’t seem to be shooting at all not delivering enough air to get the paintball out of the barrel. Like I said I’m a other comment when I drop the 12 gram out it Deff seems to be pretty full of air.

[Carp]

Prometheus take a quick look at/read of this thread and this one. Shmack has already done a good bit of trouble shooting.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I have no idea what is going on at EV are they not testing theses markers before they ship them? I’m seeing this far too often for such a simple design. Something they are doing has got to be out of Spec.

[Shmack]

I bought all new OG phantom internals so I sure hope that works and its just issue with the recent EV parts

[SignOfZeta]

I have *got* to get me one of these new EV Phantoms!

[Mr. Hick]

Has anyone checked to see if they significantly reduced the size of the air inlet holes on the power tube? All these velocity issues being 12g related and Shmacks gun working on HPA has me concerned about the possibility of something in the powertube/cupseal becoming frozen and sticking.

[Db1060]

Oh boy zetas here

[Chuck E Ducky]

Has anyone checked to see if they significantly reduced the size of the air inlet holes on the power tube? All these velocity issues being 12g related and Shmacks gun working on HPA has me concerned about the possibility of something in the powertube/cupseal becoming frozen and sticking.

That’s a possibility without having one in front of me it hard to compare. (All my Phantoms are pre EV).

Packers got an EV marker but I think he swapped out the internals to an older set he had because it was giving him issues. It seems a lot of the issue acts like an over pressure issue. Could it be the springs are different? Or that they machined the points the springs sit to far lowering there effectiveness. Something definitely off with them your typical phantom fixes are not fixing them. One was binding on the back stroke like a bent power tube.

This is one of the new ones just looking at it it looks normal to me. I think it’s an issue at the points the spring sit (likely the valve). Could be why my 2.0 body needed red springs to hit velocity. The way they are finishing the stainless parts are definitely not as smooth. Could it just be they are not polished enough?

I think it’s more likely an issue with the internals. Because the only EV marker I fixed the same way Packers fixed his by swapping out the internals for older ones I had in my toolbox. But it explains why the previous owner put a cp reg on it cut springs to get it just to shoot and sold it to my buddy. It was all kind of jacked up.

[Mr. Hick]

With it being diminishing returns that just leads me to believe that something is freezing and swelling. it's like the opposite of first shot drop off. if the guns work on HPA then CO2 is the factor. The only different characteristic of the gases is that expansion of liquid co2 causing rapid heat displacement causing soft components to freeze which can cause them to stick. That's all I can reason from this madness.

Also, if the 12g is dumped and still vents any air then there is a component blocking the air from leaving the barrel. With that not happening on HPA I'm inclined to believe it's a non-metal component.

ALSO: I mean the 3 little holes directly above the cupseal that allows gas to transfer from the valve chamber into the powertube.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Makes sense Cup seal material? What else is there. Im curious if the ports on the power tube are any different?

Could be over pressure choking the valve. We don’t know the input pressure of the HPA it could be lower. If the spring seat in the valve is too short it could be holding the valve shut like an over pressure issue at say (825ish psi 12g) vs a 450psi HPA bottle. Because it acts like an over pressure issue.

[Prometheus]

I’ll hook mine up to HPA and see if mine also works with it.

[Shmack]

I believe something is getting too cold from the CO2. If I give the gun a minute to warm back up it’ll shoot another shot or two before it starts leaking again.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Anyone got a picture of a new EV Cup seal? Is it different material they are using? Maybe it’s a material that don’t like co2 or cold.

[JeepDVLZ45]

I might be making this up, but didn’t @capitaldave fix someone’s EV phantom at Riot’s Pumpapaloza (barrel field) who had a cup seal “swell” ?

[Chuck E Ducky]

I think you are right he did didn’t he. Knowing Dave he’s probably got a stash of older cup seals. I wonder if that’s all it is. Co2 will actually permeate some rubber. Like black bunna. They swell up and the co2 will slowly leach out of them until they go back to original size. Possibly an issue with the cup seal material. That would explain why after it sits it will fire a few more shots.