Where to find bobbed valves

[Joeycakes69]

I’ve been looking all over for a bobbed valve for my phantom but still no luck. Do any of y’all fine gents have a lead on where to acquire one of these bad boys? Bonus points if it has a gauge mounted on it. Also, if it’s impossible to find nowadays I do have a good friend that is very skilled with his lathe and other heavy machinery, just wondering what the steps would be for him to modify one for me? Thanks for any responses, you guys are the best!

[Chuck E Ducky]

The gage just plugs the hole in the valve created when you chop the back off.

it would be easy in a lathe. But keep in mind there are some down sides to lowering the volume on the back side of the cup seal. Adding a gage may give you a tiny bit back vs plugging it with a grub screw. You can take too much off it. So I would not go to crazy with it. Might need heavy springs as well to reach velocity Im not a fan of bobbed valves. The only one I found works well are Carters because they are larger diameter and Dukie DSP valves.

Thats also a revolution you posted it’s a completely different valve system vs the Phantom valve body.

You can take some meat off the back of a Phantom valve without affecting internal volume but not as much as the Revolution valve you have pictured.

[iamthelazerviking]

Bobbed valves weren't something that were ever sold, but a modification

[Chuck E Ducky]

I remember people offering it as a service back in the day. you see them on some older custom phantoms. But it takes a lot of work to get them balanced out right again. Even then it’s a massive trade off.

Just ask Xtreme how making the hose less valve body volume to small worked out for them. Red Springs, valve choke over 75* the thing barely hits velocity.

I got my 2.0 valve body to almost normal on silver springs by drilling the valve body out larger. It’s still not better than the stock valve. I actually want to remove more material by leaving the sprig seat and hogging more material out of the inside of the valve body. See if I can get the gas in grip valve more like the stock valve.

You can machine them up but I wouldn’t mess with the internal volume on a Phantom. It works flawlessly on both HPA and C02/12g.

[JeepDVLZ45]

I didn’t think bobbing the valve affected the volume of the valve at all. Aren’t they just taking the extra metal off the back end to shorten it?

[Chuck E Ducky]

Depends on how much you shorten it. Cutting it back past the point the spring seat shortens the valve spring length or definitely increases the amount of valve spring pressure. It’s also going to reduce the volume of pressure. So it will need more hammer spring or a lighter/ shorter valve spring. It will 100% throw off the very fine balance and require custom springs and or tuning. Not that it can’t be done just that it will require Lots of trial and error to compensate for the loss in volume.

[NONOBLITUS]

100 percent agree with Chuck E Ducky on all points

[JeepDVLZ45]

So…regardless if it’s a good or bad idea (I like the look of a bobbed phantom myself) SSC offers it as a service.

https://stanchy.com/pages/custom-machining

That said, I had a pretty bad experience with him
a few years back so I won’t have it done, but I’ve heard it’s a non-issue nowadays.

[Joeycakes69]

Yeah I just grabbed a random photo of what looked like a bobbed valve but I couldn’t see it too well since I’m on my iPhone mini. I used to run one way back in the day and I really liked it. I could get between 40-45 shots off a single 12g. I wasn’t planning on going crazy short with it but hopefully take enough off to squeeze another 5-10 shots per 12g. When I play with my phantom I never use the autotrigger so I’m not too worried about drop off. I’ve got an extra valve body lying around as well so I’m not too worried about messing it up. I think I’m gonna go ahead and see if my buddy can make it work. Thanks for all the replies!

[Chuck E Ducky]

If you shorten it you will need to make the inside wider to compensate. Otherwise it will do the exact opposite of what you want,

[Slim]

All of the "bobbed" valves that I have seen were home made mods. Users simple cut off the excess aluminum of a VSC valve body (and hoped they didn't cut too far down which would ruin the part). I'm not aware that the inside air chamber of any of these bobbed valves were modified in any way. If they were drilled out, then that would mean the volume inside the valve was increased - which is something any player using CO2 would NOT want. Ultimately, none of the valves that I have seen/worked on provided any kind of performance advantage. They certainly had no effect on increasing the shot count because this mod is purely aesthetic. The danger with this mod is cutting too much material off of the back end to where the structural integrity of the metal is compromised, and creates the potential for a catastrophic failure under pressure. Given that most players are positioning the valve body of the marker near their face when playing, it seems unwise given that the mod is for looks only. If this was a performance mod that was safe, then Mike at CCI would have added that to his inventory decades ago.

[Joeycakes69]

I had one of these bobbed valves years ago and definitely got significantly more shots out of it. On a good hot day I was able to get close to 45 shots vs 30-35. The only down side was I couldn’t use the autotrigger which wasn’t an issue since I was running a stock class setup.

[Slim]

Joeycakes69
CO2 efficiency is effected by a variety of factors with temperature, ball-to-bore match and paint quality having the biggest impact. As CO2 pressure is determined primarily by temperature, a higher temp will provide a higher shot count for any player regardless of their valve set up. It's also important to remember that when reporting how many shots you get off of a 12-gram, you only look at how many USABLE shots there are, meaning shots that will actually break on your opponent at a reasonable distance - over 160-180 FPS (obviously, paint quality is a huge factor here). Depending on the temp, ball-to-bore match and paint quality I may be able to get over 40 shots off a 12-gram, but if they all aren't over 175 FPS then the total number of shots I get is irrelevant.

The fact that the number of usable shots you get at the chrono vs. the number of shots you get during actual play can be vastly different is something many players don't consider as well. Most veteran stock-class players practice a "tactical reload" with their 12-grams and dump them after 25 shots regardless of the marker's efficiency so they won't be at a disadvantage in the middle of a firefight.

Again, if the volume of the valve chamber hasn't been modified, then a bobbed valve is purely aesthetic. This isn't my opinion, it's simply the fact that the valve chamber size is the same between bobbed and standard valve bodies. If the valve chamber has been modified (presumably made smaller), then any performance gains would be marginal at best. Over the years I have conducted countless 12-gram efficiency tests on Nelson-based platforms (primarily Phantoms) using different springs, valves, and internals and have found that none of these things impact efficiency more than temp, ball-to-bore match and paint quality.

Any player can mod their equipment however they like. I love seeing folks get creative with their Phantoms. I'm simply pointing out that in the case of bobbed valves, there is a lot of misunderstandings regarding performance gains vs. aesthetics. As mentioned above, the significant safety concern when it comes to compromising the structural integrity of the valve body seems like a bigger consideration.

[sonixr7]

I have a Punisher’s Bobbed and Guaged and Side Tapped Valve compared to a Guaged Valve and a stock valve.

[Slim]

I'm hoping an illustration will help better explain how bobbing the valve works in regard to any perceived performance gains, as well as point out the safety concerns of this mod.

1) The size of the valve chamber is NOT effected at all when bobbing the valve body. It's simply not possible to cut the valve body down far enough to effect the size of the valve chamber because the position of the rear retaining screw prevents this from happening. The ONLY way to decrease the size of the valve chamber is to use some sort of filler/material that will reduce the amount of gas it can contain. As mentioned above, this can have negative effects in regard to springs and overall performance as the valve body has been specifically designed to hold a certain amount of gas.

2) The gas channel on a standard VSC valve body is approximately 1.5" long and approximately .125" in diameter. Bobbing the valve will reduce the channel from about 1.5" long to about .125" long - basically eliminating it. While this will certainly reduce the overall volume inside the valve body, the question is by how much? I find it difficult to believe that eliminating this tiny channel will provide significant ("significant" meaning an additional 10 shots), or even a noticeable increase in efficiency. This is especially true when factoring in the VSC hard line, or any other gas lines on the marker. I certainly didn't see any significant increases in the testing I have done with a standard VSC set up.

3) As you can see, the amount of material near the rear retaining screw is now paper thin with the gas inlet positioned on the same axis. Combine this with a gauge, and the structural integrity becomes even more of a concern.

[Joeycakes69]

I’ve got a bobbed valve on the way so I’ll conduct some testing between the stock valve and the modified valve on the same day so the conditions are identical. I’m not sure what all had been done to the bobbed valve I had years ago but it definitely had an effect on efficiency. I’m interested to see what the actual numbers will be once I test it out. If I remember correctly, the first day I had my bobbed valve I remember being pleasantly surprised with the efficiency I got from it. That phantom had never gotten more than 35 usable shots and that day I finally was able to break 40. I’ll post my results here as soon as the valve shows up.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Interesting the valves are way more sensitive to volume reduction than I thought they were.

[Slim]

My point was that the valve body itself is NOT as sensitive to volume reduction as many would have you believe. It's simply not accurate to only consider the volume of the valve body when there are hardlines, or any part that creates space (volume) between the CO2 source and the valve chamber itself. Unless you're using a valve body dropout, then there will always be additional volume to consider. Given the fact that temp, ball-to-bore match and paint quality will always impact efficiency far greater than the total volume between the CO2 source and the valve chamber (within reason), and given the fact that most players practice tactical reloading of their 12-grams during game play, it seems pointless to put so much focus on the volume aspect of the valve body.

[BIG KIRBY]

I'm trying to recreate a 12g bucket changer in grip system i made in 2012 and I'm trying to source a bobbed valve too.

It eventually started leaking because of my impatient sloppy pneumatic die grinder work at the time so i switched back to the normal 12g asa bucket. Since then, the bucket changer in my grip has just been serving as my spare 12g i carry out on the field. At some point I lost the bobbed valve so I've gotta figure out what I'm going to do to source another valve body to tap with a microline fitting.

I just reached out to SSC to see if they have any bodies on hand. I'd love to get my hands on one without any ports like the one in my previous build. I may jujst buy another ASA type body and cut off the threads and seal the hole before tapping a fitting on the frame/handle side.

imgur actually saved the jpegs from my original posts so i can share those and some images of the frame im still using

LMK if you guys come across anything or have any ideas