ID FL 3-Way Valve vs DW Hair45 Valve

[sniper97]

Ok! Which one is better?

[iamthelazerviking]

Huh, I didn't know ID made an aftermarket valve. That's cool. Cheaper than the hair45. I'd be interested in a comparison as well.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I wonder if that what PE is going to putting in the new Emeks / M170R. I heard they have a new valve coming out for them. But it’s not as short or light as the Hair45 from what I understand. Apparently for reliability reasons.

What I can say is the Hair45 rocks I got 100+ cases threw my emek with the hair valve. (Zero issues) w/ regular maintenance you would never know it’s modified until you shoot it and it’s fast AF.

Bang switch needs to be greased regularly to stay reliable also need to lose the colored orings for black bunna. I have seen them fail a hand full of times. Most of my guys went to the Hair45 or took the bang out.

Im Interested to see the Inception valve reviews. They kept it quiet it seems. I haven’t heard anything about it yet.

[bassninja]

I think it'd be interesting to take a look at the internals of both valves and see the differences. I read somewhere on Reddit that the Hair valve was a collaboration between PE and Deadlywind, so I'd like to see what PE changed for their own FL valve vs. the Hair valve.

[Ecapnation]

Not the case.... In matter of fact if there's issues with an emek caused by the hair valve the first thing their techs do is ask "have you tried stock parts?"

[Hellion360]

This valve is not specific to Inception Designs, Simon did testing on the valve prototypes. This is a Planet Eclipse product, ID just got them in hand first.
Shorter and lighter pull, but not as light and short as the Hair45.
Supposedly more reliable, and needs less maintenance, but like Chuck I have had no issues with my Hair45 valves with basic attention.

I would bet this valve from PE is reliable, effective, and does exactly what they say it does. A very reasonable alternative to the Hair.

[Damonan]

The way it was explained to me was both valves utilize a QEV incorporated into the valve, and I believe the Hair 45 has a larger air chamber, but Simon has addressed this with a new gadget to make the Planet Eclipse FL valve as fast as the Hair45. https://www.facebook.com/InceptionDes/

[djeclypse]

The owner's son at my favorite shop, Quickshot in Shamong NJ, was telling me how he had his emek with him at an event they were at where Simon was also. This was just after the FL3 came out. He was talking to Simon about the new valve and they did a test with Simon's with an fl3 and secret pin, 16 bps, and his with a DW Hair 45, 13 bps, both with ID fangs. Now I don't doubt his mech finger capability but take this for what it's worth. My actual point is the DW did not survive that maniacal stream of balls, as soon as the hopper was empty the QEV gave up the ghost while the FL3 had no issues. I've heard this other places as well. Get the fl3 and the secret pin (14.99 on ID) and you are still saving $5 over the DW.

https://www.inceptiondesigns.com/FL_3_Way_Valve_EMEK_MG100_EMF100_Pin_p/cgp-0171.htm

Ps I bought an FL3 and one of the original EMAK triggers from Binary Eng, hes selling them for 20 now (27 shipped) and just waiting on an EMF/MG100 I purchased from a member here. Paid on September 24. Going to wait 1 more week before going through PayPal for a refund.

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[sniper97]

Thanks for the updated info!

[Jordan]

The owner's son at my favorite shop, Quickshot in Shamong NJ, was telling me how he had his emek with him at an event they were at where Simon was also. This was just after the FL3 came out. He was talking to Simon about the new valve and they did a test with Simon's with an fl3 and secret pin, 16 bps, and his with a DW Hair 45, 13 bps, both with ID fangs. Now I don't doubt his mech finger capability but take this for what it's worth. My actual point is the DW did not survive that maniacal stream of balls, as soon as the hopper was empty the QEV gave up the ghost while the FL3 had no issues. I've heard this other places as well. Get the fl3 and the secret pin (14.99 on ID) and you are still saving $5 over the DW.

https://www.inceptiondesigns.com/FL_3_Way_Valve_EMEK_MG100_EMF100_Pin_p/cgp-0171.htm

Ps I bought an FL3 and one of the original EMAK triggers from Binary Eng, hes selling them for 20 now (27 shipped) and just waiting on an EMF/MG100 I purchased from a member here. Paid on September 24. Going to wait 1 more week before going through PayPal for a refund.

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Is an Emek with either setup still mech-tourney-legal?

[Toestr]

Is an Emek with either setup still mech-tourney-legal?

Yes. The only limitations is that a pneumatic switch operated guns can't use a double trigger or have an rt effect.

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[Chuck E Ducky]

Both valves are universally accepted in all Mech Tournament's. This is the snip from the official ICC rule book.

[Jordan]

So, despite these valves making the trigger "walkable", as displayed by a video by QMTO, they're good?

[Chuck E Ducky]

Yes and just like whipping and playing on you can get a penalty for it. The 1.3” trigger frame is intended to negate that. However it can be done with a very light trigger setup. You get caught riding that line well that’s on you. The consequences are worse then the benefits. You aren’t going to last to the buzzer burning paint like that and every body counts in 10 man. Lots of guys run these setups and I have yet to see people trying to jam two booger hooks in a single trigger frame while playing. Fun thing to talk about but real world benefits meh… What I do know is that new shocker engine rips faster then the PE markers with the Hair valve. Seems like they upped the efficiency to. Also these 10 man events are not won with ROF. It’s all about how well your team works together. Sure you can shoot lanes but most 10 man fields are long. You Only really got a chance at hitting the front runners looking to take Real estate off the break.

[Handy]

I should have both valves as well as the secret pin and a bang switch in a week or 2. Going to try to do a comparison. Is there anything anyone wants to compare in particular?

[Chuck E Ducky]

I’m curious how the Inception compares to the DW valve. I feel like it’s something I need to experience and feel tho. I’m Waiting for some guys at the field get there inception valve in. I have the DW in my 170 and emek so I’m not going to go threw the trouble of changing it out but I’m curious.

[djeclypse]

I should have both valves as well as the secret pin and a bang switch in a week or 2. Going to try to do a comparison. Is there anything anyone wants to compare in particular?

Handy, did you ever run that comparison? I'm curious if the secret pin actually makes a difference over the FL3 solo.

[Handy]

I did. I just didn't get a chance to write up as much as I would have liked since my in play comparison didn't work out the way I intended.

FL3 was lighter than stock for sure, and with the secret pin had a pull that was 1/2 to 1 turn of the set screw longer than the hAir.

The hAir is a lighter pull than the FL3 for sure, but maybe it's just my un-refined trigger finger, but I think I would be hard pressed to shoot much faster with the hAir over the FL3 (I think I hit 8-9bps with both 1 handed)

I did not feel like the secret pin made a discernable difference to me, but I believe Hellion noticed much more of a difference.

If you're going for raw speed, the hAir is the way to go. I don't shoot mine enough to be able to say for sure, but I would bet the FL3 with or without the secret pin will be more reliable based on the whole being from Planet Eclipse/Inceptions.

[Chuck E Ducky]

What problem are people having with the Hair45 valve? My 10man team has been using them since they came out haven’t seen or heard of any issues with them.

[Handy]

I have heard they require a tiny bit more attention to cleaning and lubricating, but I have no personal experience with it. If the FL3 is anything like the rest of the Emek, you could probably run it without cleaning for a long time and not have issues. I know we had a guy go an entire year of play, every weekend, without removing the bolt assembly from his Emek and it just kept on chugging. Maybe it will be something similar with the valves? Either way, I have hAir valves in both of my Emeks. Not that I'll ever shoot them to its full potential, but the few dollars you save from one valve to the other just made me spring the extra few bucks on the lighter, shorter pull.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Just curious what issues people are having. You can adjust the trigger to short that the safety stops working thats user error tho. After initial setup, I haven’t seen or heard of any issues with the Hair45. The bang switch on the other hand is junk. I would rather run an emek stock then use a bag switch. I have had to tec those stupid things way to may times. But the Hair45 I haven’t seen any issues with even with owners who don’t take particularly good care of there gear. I do clean my valve when I service my marker usually about every 10 cases give or take. Unless I really beat it into the mud. But I know people who the only time they clean there stuff is when they hand it to me and say make it shoot nice and still haven’t had issues. The emek itself can have an issue if it gets to much shell and paint lodged behind the trigger that the floating pin sticks. But that has nothing to do with the valve and it’s rare.

[Handy]

I would agree that the bang switch is not worth it at all. I can't argue with multiple seasons of 10 man experience when it comes to the hAir, and I can't remember where I saw people complaining.