Thunder Cat resurrection; I have questions

[Drunkscriblerian]

Originally I wanted to bring my old Sheridan markers back from the dead, but problems at Palmer's have made that not an option for the moment. So, I've turned my attention to an old Thunder Cat I have, especially after reading Myrkul's thread about how accurate they can be with the right paint and barrel. After doing a bit of Internet research, I have a few questions;

-Currently ICD's website lists rebuild kits for the "Cat" as Sold Out. Will they make more, or should I source new/old parts and O-rings separately? I'd like to buy my stuff from the company (just to keep them interested in making stuff for this marker) but if they're done with the Cat series I'll look elsewhere if I have to. I guess my question here is should I wait for ICD to make more new stock, or should I just source the stuff on my own?

-What barrel thread pattern did the Thunder Cat use? I've heard people say that ICD used Cocker threading, but having never owned a Cocker I have no way to confirm that. Myrkul mentioned using a Freak barrel system on his, so I'm assuming the Cat's barrel thread pattern isn't proprietary but I also felt the need to make sure.

-Do CCI .45 grip frames work with a Cat, and if so is there any modification one has to do to the grip frame to make it work?

[Toestr]

I highly doubt ICD will restock rebuild kits as they were probably just clearing the shelves of old parts. They MIGHT restock oring and screw kits, but don't expect any of the proprietary parts to be restocked.

Cats use ICD threaded barrels. They have 4 lead steep threads so they thread in very quickly. Smart Parts did make a freak back for them and there may be a cocker adapter. Only the very latest of the ICD electros and pumps use cocker threads.

It will take most AR pattern grips so the CCI .45s will work.

[Drunkscriblerian]

I highly doubt ICD will restock rebuild kits as they were probably just clearing the shelves of old parts. They MIGHT restock oring and screw kits, but don't expect any of the proprietary parts to be restocked.

Cats use ICD threaded barrels. They have 4 lead steep threads so they thread in very quickly. Smart Parts did make a freak back for them and there may be a cocker adapter. Only the very latest of the ICD electros and pumps use cocker threads.

It will take most AR pattern grips so the CCI .45s will work.

Thanks for the info! I'll probably just hunt up the parts I need DIY style. Finding a Freak barrel might be a challenge it sounds like. Glad to know the 45 grip will work though.

[Myrkul]

They won't be making new rebuild kits. The guns are just too old. Occasionally you can find NOS rebuild kits on the bay, the seals are all trash at this point, so they are only really good for the rear bumper, springs, screws and the cocking knob. Cats take all standard "O" Rings though, so ACE Hardware should have everything you need.

I would recommend contacting BMC fabrication on Facebook to see if he can bore out an ICD threaded barrel for you, the freak backs aren't exactly easy to find.

[Toestr]

The cup seals are probably still good. Doc might be making the Freak backs a little more common in the next little while

[Myrkul]

Now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever had a cat with a bad cup seal, so there is probably a super good chance the cup seals are still good.

And if doc does whip up ICD freaks, they would definitely be worth jumping on!

[Meleager7]

the smart parts freak barrel has worked great for me on my alleycat deluxe

[Drunkscriblerian]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I'm currently looking at BMC Fabrication's website and the prices seem pretty reasonable. Which style/type of Freak barrel would you guys recommend for the Cat? It appears there are several to choose from.

[Brokeass_baller]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I'm currently looking at BMC Fabrication's website and the prices seem pretty reasonable. Which style/type of Freak barrel would you guys recommend for the Cat? It appears there are several to choose from.

There are really only two types, unless I'm not understanding your question.

There are XL Freak, and Classic Freak. Classic inserts are 5" (maybe 6", I don't remember), and XL are 8". If you have the money, go with XL, because it's *technically* more efficient. But you really won't notice on the field. I have both kits. Go with whatever is in your budget.

[Drunkscriblerian]

There are really only two types, unless I'm not understanding your question.

There are XL Freak, and Classic Freak. Classic inserts are 5" (maybe 6", I don't remember), and XL are 8". If you have the money, go with XL, because it's *technically* more efficient. But you really won't notice on the field. I have both kits. Go with whatever is in your budget.

Looks like I can probably afford either, but it will have to wait until next paycheck no matter what. I just adopted an actual cat, and vet bills kinda ate up our discretionary income this month. Also, just to make sure I understand the process correctly here; I ship him my barrel and he bores it out for different inserts, so I can change barrel diameter to match whatever paint I'm shooting. Do I have that right?

Sorry if this is a dumb question, I've just never used or heard of Freak insert systems before now...back when I played it was largely "toob is toob, paint is paint" when it came to paint/barrel interactions.

[Drunkscriblerian]

Toestr I'll probably start with the factory barrel and prioritize getting the thing running over other stuff. After all barrel choice is academic if Kitty can't be made to cycle.

[Myrkul]

All of my cats struggle to recock correctly on HPA without a freak barrel system. This was never an issue for me with Co2, or when paint was larger. I guess they "technicaly" work without it, but they don't recock nearly as reliably. The hammer and bolt assembly like the extra back pressure a freak barrel gives with how damn small modern paint is. If I played with the recock screws I could get it to recock somewhat more reliably without a freak barrel system, but the velocity suffered horribly.

[Drunkscriblerian]

Myrkul Good to know! I was wondering about that exact problem and was about to ask that question, thanks for the additional info.

[Drunkscriblerian]

Well folks, looks like a miracle occurred and new stock of rebuild kits for the Cats became available at ICD. Scored one and it should be on the way soon, so that problem got solved. Looks like at least one of my old gun rebuilds can move forward finally.

[Drunkscriblerian]

Update: the rebuild kit showed up...and I sat on it for a couple weeks. Why? I've never done any modding on paintball markers before and was nervous to get started, that's why. Hopefully some of y'all can relate to "first project" jitters.

I finally decided to take this rebuild in stages. I also want to rebuild my old Pro-Lite from my high school days (for reasons that purely relate to nostalgia) so I plan to take a trip to the "local" (read; hour away) paintball shop and buy among other things a C02 tank. Both so I can run my Pro-Lite and so I can test the Thunder Cat after I use the rebuild kit I bought. I figure getting the TC airing up and cycling on C02 will allow me to test it with the paint that's available in my area. My notion is to see how it behaves with said paint, because Myrkul said he had no problem with his Cats cycling paint until he moved.

If my Cat likes the paint the local fields sell, okay fine. If it doesn't, time to bust out the tools.

Also, I might just run it on C02. Why not? The tanks are cheap, yes you have to pay for fills but said fills last a lot longer, they're designed for it....As much as I like the convenience of HPA when running old markers there's an argument to be made...

[Myrkul]

I just modded a prolite to run HPA last night. Also very easy to get them running great on HPA and with modern paint, the real key is the gasline needs to be swapped out on pro-lites, the stock gaslines restrict the volume too much. You can also flute the cup seals for a little extra volume in the valve, that's how Brett G gets the old SMG 68s to run on HPA.

Chronoed @ 290 fps earlier today.

[Drunkscriblerian]

Also I may have had too much wine with my parents, but when it comes to the feed system unlike a lot of 90s designs the ICD Powerfeed section is a distinct part you can remove. As such, I have visions of a replacement that's an Autococker-style centerline feed with a clamping neck dancing in my head.

(When I sober up y'all are free to tell me I'm either crazy or right)

[Myrkul]

You'd probably need to contact BMC or a similar machinest to come up with a center feed mod for a cat. Off set vertical feed would probably be a little easier, but either way, it's going to take a solid level of skill and a lot more money then just modifing existing parts.

[Drunkscriblerian]

Fair enough, and that's what I'd expect.

I just really don't like the Powerfeed, Between that and the M-16 style tank connection, that's what caused me to bury the T-Cat in my gear bag back in the day. I can solve the tank connection problem but I was really hoping to get rid of the Powerfeed also. Oh well, I guess I can't without spending serious bucks.

[Drunkscriblerian]

The resurrection has begun!

Most of what held me back was the high cost of CCI grip frames, and I needed two of them; one for my Phantom pump and one for my Thunder Cat. Recently I realized a very simple fact...my Phantom has a bottom-line on it, and those grips are swappable. Now, what held me back from using the Phantom's stock grip was how I didn't like it. That damn finger groove and the strips on the sides always bit into my hands. But then I also realized that grip is just a piece of plastic, and I own a Dremel.

A quick wrap with black tape and the grip was ready to install on my Thunder Cat.

Some work with an Allen set later, and the grips/bottom line swapped just fine. Now, I did have to take a fitting out of the bottom line, adjust the angle and redo the Teflon tape, but after a bit of testing I've determined this will work for now.

I plan on doing a proper gas-thru front grip on the Cat at some point, but for now this should work fine. Again, saves me the purchase of several things.

[Drunkscriblerian]

Next, I stripped the Cat down as best as I could figure out using ICD's exploded parts diagram on their website and opened my rebuild kit.

At first everything went well; I was able to replace the bolt O-ring no problem (it had fossilized into plastic) but after that...yeah. ran into problems. For one, I cannot figure out for the life of me how I'm supposed to get to the trigger/sear springs. Is there a connection between the trigger guard and the lower assembly that I'm missing?

For another, the ICD manual is so blurry that I'm not sure what O-ring goes where. I'd like to think I did a good job matching sizes with the bolt and powerfeed o-ring but I might be wrong.

Also, the diagram indicates an o-ring that should be between the vertical gas feed and the lower assembly that doesn't seem to be in my kit; none of the o-rings in there seem to match. To me intuitively, an o-ring should be there. But I can't figure out which one.

Lastly, damn y'all...the new mainspring is hella snappy. Even with the tension turned all the way down it feels rough.

(For the record I took it apart, put the parts I could figure out how to get into it - bumper, mainspring, bolt O-ring- and put it back together. It's still pissing air out of the block above the vertical ASA, so that's where the problem is.)

[Myrkul]

You are correct about an "o" ring being needed between the VASA and the body. It's a #016.

The trigger and sear are held in by tension pins. Unless you have a super pressing reason to pull them like a broken sear spring...I wouldn't. Even with a punch and a hammer they are a bitch to get out, and if your punch slips it will leave a nasty dent in the anno. I've only done it a few times while swapping out a trigger guard, and I don't plan on ever doing it again.

As a final note, make sure you clean it out hella freaking good with warm water and soap before reassembly, WD40 will kill your "o" rings.

[Drunkscriblerian]

Myrkul Thanks for both pieces of information. I guess a trip to the hardware store is in my future.

Also, I guess I'll just leave the trigger/sear springs alone. They seem to be functioning fine as-is.

[Brokeass_baller]

Yeah, WD-40 is no-go on anything paintball. I've been having good luck with Super Lube silicone oil. It was recommended by a member here, and it's been working great so far in everything I've shot it through, and even in my air tools. Must be the food grade silicone version though. I just keep refilling an old Gold Cup bottle with it and keep that in my field toolbox.

https://www.amazon.com/Super-Lube-56204-Silicone-Lubricant/dp/B07C3CZ9CL/

[glaman5266]

Forgive me if I simply missed it, but how the heck do you remove the mainspring? I’ve been wanting to swap out the one in my Cat but it’s stuck in the back cap & the adjuster doesn’t even engage with it. Am I missing something in removing it?

[Drunkscriblerian]

My experience with the Cat has been you simply unscrew the back cap and the back end pops out, same as most blowbacks. Never had any trouble removing the mainspring.

Getting the hammer and mainspring back in, well now that's a different story...

[Myrkul]

glaman5266 Something is very wrong if it doesn't just fall out when you unscrew the back cap. I would unthread the RVA all the way out, then pull out the bumper, then inspect the spring to see if it's catching on something.

Getting the hammer back in, just push on it, then pull the trigger while there is tension on it. That should slide the hammer all the way in. Then just drop the spring in and re-screw in the back cap.