Older Spyders - Can’t Hit 280fps on CO2

[Trbo323]

Are these less expensive markers sprung in this manner to avoid outlaw players from just cranking up the velocity to unsafe levels, since many don't have/use a chrono? But again, I don't seem to remember having trouble reaching 300 fps decades ago.
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No, there's simply too many variables for a company to try that. Barrel length is another one, I've had multiple tippmanns that won't Chrono UNDER 300 after the owner simply put on a 18 or 20 inch barrel. Now granted the tippmann design wastes a lot of air so the longer barrel has more of an effect on them but likewise it could be a problem with your spyder, in your case not long enough.

But to try and spring the marker so that it will stay under a specific velocity would be impossible unless it was shooting like 200 from the factory and then wouldn't really be usable on the field

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[nak81783]

Thanks, everyone, for the replies. I’ve got a handful of things to try, and then I’ll report back.

Again, I fully agree paint to barrel match can have a 30+ fps impact. I’ve seen it plenty of times. I am, however, surprised there’s not a little “overdrive” with the stock springs. E.g., it should be able to hit 350 fps with velocity adjuster maxed out and a good paint/bore match, which would allow something close to 300 fps without a good paint/bore match.

[Sdawg]

Physics be crazy like that.

[GanonsGrin]

Are you using regs on either marker or just relying on the tank pressure to get you there also? Trying to rack my brain on anything aside from the barrel since that’s not an acceptable solution.

if you rock the whole marker back so the barrel you have is pointing slightly up and the ball sits more on the face of the bolt, does that get you to the 300 you’re after?

[nak81783]

GanonsGrin No regulators. Whether in my basement or shooting out the back of my garage, there's always a little upward tilt of my barrel.

[nak81783]

Baseline for this post is Spyder SE with 14" J&J barrel with CO2.
1. Nylon balls (~3.5g, ~.679, very consistent in both weight and size) - 275 fps.
2. Swapping in the larger valve cup seal (pictured below) dropped this to 260 fps.
3. See pictured chart for representative paint sizes and weights (with original cup seal put back in marker). Velocity was 250 - 290 fps. I didn't track velocity for each ball as measured/weighed (and I shot more than just the 3 measured for each type), so the data is kind of meaningless, other than showing that the nylon balls are near the middle of the paintballs in terms of velocity.

Hopefully, my parts arrive tomorrow, so I can do some more testing. If I'm bored and/or motivated, I'll measure more weights and diameters and get velocities for each measured/weighed ball.

[scottieb]

I've seen those cup seals in Silver Bullets I believe.

[GanonsGrin]

So just to be clear, we are working every angle EXCEPT for bore control, correct? I think that rather than spending money on random internal parts, a freak barrel and a couple of smaller inserts would fix all of this. I do understand your point of using what you have, but that’s not fixing the issue for you at all. I don’t see where else this can go with more springs and cup seals

[nak81783]

The Spyder SE was a nostalgia purchase - my first marker. I assumed it would hit 300 fps on CO2 with fresh springs. However, the goal is to get it running at ~500psi, so I don’t have to mess with CO2 or change my current HPA tanks’ output pressures. This is the primary reason for the Eko valve, pin, and spring kit purchase. If I can consistently get 280fps at 500psi, I’ll be happy. If it sits on the wall and makes me smile, remembering my paintball beginnings, that’s OK too.

I won’t say I’ll never buy a barrel kit, but with the variance in paint size I frequently see, I’m currently very much opposed to them. I’ve had much better luck overboring - less breaks at the cost of being a little less efficient and a little louder, neither of which I care much about.

[Tarsun2]

i got one for that same purpose. Got it to 280fps and hung it on the wall. Using anything other than the glorious green and black stock barrel is sacrilege lol. The anno is the best part.

check the brass filters (or just remove them) and see if that helps. Also look into the expansion chamber to see if theres a clog. Other than that, it seems like you covered all other bases. To get the desired FPS, youd probably have to use a different barrel or a bolt with an o-ring at the head end. (or both)

[Trbo323]

Nylon balls (besides the small size) might not be helping either.. I wouldn't be surprised if they are adding more friction than paint going down the barrel

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[nak81783]

Nylon balls (besides the small size) might not be helping either.. I wouldn't be surprised if they are adding more friction than paint going down the barrel

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There were some previous comments opining the opposite. I know you don’t see comments using Tapatalk. I tried to just use quotes to keep you involved, I really did, but it got to be too much, especially on my phone, so I resorted to comments.

I’ll try to get better size, weight, and velocity data with the nylon balls and various paints I have, and we can just let the data speak to us.

[Trbo323]

There were some previous comments opining the opposite. I know you don't see comments using Tapatalk. I tried to just use quotes to keep you involved, I really did, but it got to be too much, especially on my phone, so I resorted to comments.

I'll try to get better size, weight, and velocity data with the nylon balls and various paints I have, and we can just let the data speak to us.

It's all good. I appreciate it. Just tell me there's comments and I can load the web version up, you don't have to go out if your way

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[nak81783]

Well, egg on my face for this one, but I have to admit when I make a stupid mistake. The main springs I thought were "stiff" actually weren't. cstx_pb gave me two truly stiff main springs. All else being equal, the nylon balls were shooting well over 300 fps with the RVA all the way in. Unfortunately, when I backed the RVA completely out, it's still a bit above 300 fps, even with the stock barrel. I'll try it with paint and play around with other springs as time permits. Thanks, cstx_pb

My parts package was delayed by a day, so more on the Eko valve and pin later.

Also, I checked two CO2 tank pressures with my gage and cstx_pb's gage (both nicer, liquid-filled types). My basement was at 65F, and the tank pressures were both 725 psi on both gages. That seems low for CO2 at that temp. I would expect closer to 785-800 psi.

Unfortunately, it would only hit around 235 fps (if I remember correctly) with my HPA tank at 500-550 psi and frequently failed to recock.

Lastly, I gathered weights and diameters (8 diameters per ball) for three different paints. I want to see what the velocities are compared to each ball's polar circularity, seam circularity, and overall sphericity. The experiment will continue when time permits.

[scottieb]

Glad you've sorted the springs. I knew that'd be it.

[Sdawg]

Switch to high pressure air and get 850psi consistently. Why are you using CO2, a dangerous and unstable gas, in 2026?

[nak81783]

Switch to high pressure air and get 850psi consistently. Why are you using CO2, a dangerous and unstable gas, in 2026?

1. Until last night, I didn’t have an HPA reg set above 550psi.

2. Nostalgia - the sound, the smell, the added visual effect, etc.

Can you please elaborate on dangerous and unstable?

[Sdawg]

Can you please elaborate on dangerous and unstable?

Disclosure- copied from a Google search:

“CO2 is a dangerous gas in high-pressure systems due to the risk of violent container rupture, rapid expansion causing freezing temperatures, and asphyxiation from leaks in confined spaces. High-pressure CO2 cylinders store liquid at 800-1,000 psi, which can cause catastrophic, explosion-like failures if damaged, overfilled, or exposed to heat.”

[Ecapnation]

Two odd things to check should every else be in working order.

Make sure the plastic spring guide isn't deformed

Also check the filter in the vertical asa some had those.....by check i mean take it out

[nak81783]

Two odd things to check should every else be in working order.

Make sure the plastic spring guide isn't deformed

Also check the filter in the vertical asa some had those.....by check i mean take it out

SE guide is good. I messed up the Xtra’s spring guide a little bit trying creative ways to up the velocity. It doesn’t seem to be affecting anything though.

Removed the SE’s filter. Didn’t find one in the Xtra.