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CO2 is the devil, Bobby Boucher !!
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Eko valve and pin were disappointing. The hole sizes looked bigger (due to countersinks), and other geometry looked higher flow, but the actual thru hole diameters are the same as the stock valve. All else equal, it was about 15-20 fps slower than the stock valve. I tried various spring combinations in conjunction with expansion chamber (acting as an LPC) on/off in concert with different input pressure sources in league with different barrel lengths/porting (and to a lesser extent, size). Quite a few combinations. Lots of assembly/disassembly.
Eko valve “modifications” to commence as time permits. Basically, I’ll do what I can to make it look like other high flow valves I’ve seen and retest.Comment
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I spent lots of time testing with the Spyder SE last night - two valves, a spring kit, and three input pressures. I was having recocking issues when the velocity was at or above field limits.
I was not having the same issues with the Spyder Xtra.
The Spyder SE has a fat striker; the Spyder Xtra has a slim striker. The slim striker uses a 015 oring. I put a 016 oring on the fat striker, because the oring that came on it was gummy.
Research seemed to indicate an 016 may work in some situations, but not all. The research also seemed to indicate the fat striker oring is a custom size in 80 durometer (not more common 70D or 90D).
I went to oring design guides to determine if a different oring was required. Results are shown below.
Today, I went to my local hardware for orings. They only had 15mm x 2 mm in 70D, but it works much better than the 016. I can now use the rear velocity adjuster to go 280-300 on CO2 at 750psi using nylon riot balls. I still need to test it with paint.
tippmannparts.com still has stock of Kingman part 19A, which is the fat striker oring. I asked them if it was the OEM part, not a close standard or metric "equivalent". Their response was that they are the OEM oring, and they can't get them anymore. They have about 170 in stock, but when they're gone, they're gone. I might pick some up, but I hate paying more in shipping than the items I'm buying.
Also pictured is the input pressure and spring combo testing I did with the 15mm x 2mm oring on the fat striker. All of this testing was done with a 14" J&J barrel (.689 as measured) and very consistent nylon riot balls (.679).
Finally, earlier in the thread, I mentioned measuring weights and sizes of paintballs to compare to their resultant velocity. This was in partial response to bore matching and its effect on velocity. I decided to do that with my Etha 3M, which is more consistent, and since the Spyder SE isn't fully dialed in yet. I will post that elsewhere and try to remember to link it here. https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/p...ct-on-velocityAttached FilesLast edited by nak81783; 02-14-2026, 09:09 PM.Comment
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The thru hole in the Spyder SE VASA was the choke point. It wasn’t letting the volume of air from the expansion chamber, acting as an LPC, to the valve fast enough. I drilled it out to match the size of the Xtra. After that, everything helped the way I thought it should - modified Eko valve, valve pin, spring combo, and barrel. I can get 300fps on 500psi.
Still have to test taking the Venturi insert out of the bolt. I think that gave the Xtra a 20-30fps bump.Comment
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Good to know thanks
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Makes sense. the SE was made for CO2 and thrives on the stuff. The entire expansion chamber is just a flow restriction on AIR.
The Rodeo came in a similar black/green color pattern and uses a traditional reg. You can swap out the reg, front block that now has a volumizer, the braided line, drop forward (if you want), and the ASA all while keeping the stock colorway.
ive always loved the SE and only ever saw ONE during field play. i even remember where i was too; Jack Frost PA and it was owned by a blonde hair girl. Was also the 1st time i saw an Angel.Comment
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The expansion chamber acts as an LPC, not a restrictor. I just had to give the shot access to the air volume in the expansion chamber.
This was evidenced by the fact that after I drilled open the restrictive hole and threaded the tank directly into the VASA, the velocity was a bit better, but no where near where it is with the expansion chamber volume on tap.
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to a point, yes. but any time air needs to change direction, it will slow down. Any time it passes through a port or orifice, it will slow down. An expansion chamber, even modified, will slow the flow of air down.
There no doubt that modifying the chamber helped, but overall is most likely still hurting performance.
See what it does with the tank attached directly to the front block. That should give an idea of where the bottleneck is. If no change is noted, the expansion chamber is not the limiting factor (at this point).
its been a few years since ive been in a spyder SE and cant recall what the ports on the front block look like; one or two? small or large? That could also be limiting flow. Are you still running the brass filters too?Comment
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Threading the bottle directly to the VASA with less improvement than using the expansion chamber is the exact evidence I noted in my last comment.
VASA had one 3/32 hole that I opened to 5/32. I’m hesitant to go more. The hole is offset, so I’m thinning the outside wall of the VASA every time I go larger. I’ll have to see if I can add another hole somewhere else or mill it to slot the hole more towards the center of the part.
Filter was removed early in troubleshooting.
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good deal, i must have missed that data point. im rooting for you; would be dope to see an older Spyder SE back up and running in all of its glory.
Does the SE bolt have 2 o-rings? i cant remember. Maybe losing some velocity there.
other than that it looks like you covered all the bases (and some).Comment
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Taking the venturi stem out actually lowered velocity about 20fps, which is counterintuitive to me, but the data is what it is. I'm guessing if the venturi isn't the restriction in the system, removing it just made a slightly bigger volume for the air to fill while it was trying to act on the ball, so the total system was more volume and less pressure when firing the ball.
I had the stock valve and pin modified. It's running 280fps at 400psi with the RVA back out most of the way. It won't recock reliably without back pressure from a ball, but I think that's fairly typically for low pressure blowbacks. Not bad for something from 1999 (at least that's when I bought my first Spyder SE).
The modified Eko valve I had in there was working (300fps at 500psi), but there were a few things I didn't like. First, It's longer than the stock valve, and even though it "fit", I was concerned it was shortening the stroke of the hammer. Second, the pin I had for it wasn't a loose slip fit in the blowback hole; it was pretty sloppy. This allowed extra air to blow back the hammer even though it has a dedicated blowback hole. Lastly, as a last ditch effort, before I realized it was the VASA that was the restriction, I made the modifications with a hand drill. It worked, but it wasn't pretty. Perhaps none of these were much of an issue, but the fact that the stock valve modified by a machinist with proper tools works better tells me something wasn't right with the modified Eko valve and incorrect pin I had in there.Last edited by nak81783; 03-20-2026, 10:18 PM.Comment
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Good call. I need to do that yet. I put some electrical tape over it for now, but I'll tap and plug it later. With it being right over the trigger, is this also a good place to shim the trigger back to get it closer to 90 degrees and shorten the pull a bit? I didn't line up the geometry exactly, but I'm wondering if the same screw could be used for both plugging the hole and leaving some of the screw proud of the body to adjust the trigger. -
scottieb Covering the vent hole with electrical tape actually dropped the velocity about 50fps. I'm guessing the hammer couldn't hit as hard, because it had to compress the air trapped between the hammer oring and the closed valve once the hammer oring was forward of the vent hole. Changing nothing else, I removed the tape, and I got the 50fps back.
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I got to play with the Spyder SE today. It ran great. I did have to shim the reg to about 475psi due to small paint, but at that output pressure I could get about 260fps with the RVA all the way out and about 300fps with the RVA all the way in. It still needs a ball to recock, but I'm fine with that. I'm going to play with some other springs tomorrow just to make sure I can drop the velocity if I get bigger paint. I think bigger paint could easily put the 260fps I was getting today with small paint and the RVA all the way out to over the 280fps field limit.Comment
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would you consider a neo power valve or possibly a VS2 balanced valve?Comment
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I think I’m going to leave it be. It runs well at what all my tank output pressures are currently set to. I played around with different hammer springs yesterday, so I can change the hammer spring to one not quite so stiff if, by miracle, I get bigger paint which puts me over 280fps with the current spring and RVA all the way out.
If I want a lower pressure STBB, I’ve got a modified Azodin KDIII to tinker with.
I’m not sure how much use either of these will get, so I’m happy with their current performance given the relatively low cost and time invested.Comment
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