Lets talk Montneel Z1s.....

[Bigdog01]

Ok, so I have four Z1 projects that I am working thru. 2 "Rentals", 1 original MegaZ, and one "converted" MegaZ. (Would love to add a stock Z1 to my collection if anyone is willing to sell.)
I see Doc has the "rebuild" kit, and I will most likely pick up at least a couple of those, but what I really need is a parts list/manual. The detent springs are rusted out, and while I'm sure I could find something suitable in the parts bin, I'd like to know what the originals are. I am also needing the bumper. I have 4 Z1 projects to work thru, and really don't want to have to buy 4 rebuild kits just for the bumpers.
I also want to replace some of the more rusted screws so would like to know what sizes they are.

Anyone have a parts list/manual by chance?

Next, lets talk HPA. I know these originally worked best with CO2, and even better with siphon tanks. However, my field doesn't even fill CO2 anymore, so what can be done to get these to function with HPA? I am aware of the "N" nitrogen valve, which allowed for HPA, and I'm also aware of the "S", or "summer" valve. But alas, I don't have either in any of my current markers, so I am unable to compare them. Has anyone figured out a way to make the "W" valve work with HPA?


PFA

[Rolling Thunder 67]

Ask and you will receive.

Unfortunately they are no specific sizing of any of the components.

I believe HP Lovecraft is our resident "Z" whisperer, check with him and see if he might be able to help.

[Twisted G]

Would a Super high output tank reg the rt mag guys use work? Or would they just blow seals? .

[DocsMachine]

Unfortunately, it's not pressure, it's volume. Which do kind of go together, of course, but I suspect in this case getting enough pressure to offset the loss in gas density, would be difficult.

The trick for a "nitrogen" valve was an external chamber- basically a volumizer- that takes place of the tiny side tube on the Mega-Z, That provides more immediate volume to the valve, and supposedly offsets the small valve chamber.

I have a couple standing orders/requests for a recreation of that 'volumizer', but haven't yet had a chance to whip one up.

One idea somebody had elsewhere, was trying to replace that small line with a section of 3/8" copper. Two 1/8" NPT to 3/8" compression fittings, and a short chunk of 3/8" copper bent into an elbow- or even a "J" shape, that runs forward towards the barrel, then curves back around to the valve fitting. I haven't tried this one either, and couldn't say how it might fit, but just as an experiment, it might be fun to try.

Doc.

[NONOBLITUS]

I have been messing with mine for years. Still have troubles with the valve O rings sealing in the body. It is a love hate relationship with mine. I have minty Z1 I could put back together and would let go.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Have you tried using Dow 55 to swell the orings

[Bigdog01]

I have been messing with mine for years. Still have troubles with the valve O rings sealing in the body. It is a love hate relationship with mine. I have minty Z1 I could put back together and would let go.

I would be very much interested in the Z1 if you do.

[Hp_lovecraft]

However, my field doesn't even fill CO2 anymore, so what can be done to get these to function with HPA?

That has been an issue at more and more fields. I don't really blame them. It dramatically improves the fill station process. You can have "self serve" stations. and by not filling co2, you can avoid the liability/safety associated with hot guns, either from hot temps, or liquid getting past regs. Or co2 being used on guns that should not use co2. and it helps in cold weather, etc.

The only negative is the higher equipment cost, and a small percentage of guns from the early 90s that will not run hpa.

But..... all I own is early 90s guns that will not run HPA. Its easy enough to rent a siphon bulk tank, but no commercial field will let you use it on the field. I've had some luck prefilling all my tanks at home, and just using them til empty, but thats not really a solution.

Besides the Montneel nitro-Z setup, there were some 3rd party conversions back in the day. But they all were pretty much the same- The stock valve was hogged out, and a volumizer was attached to the side of the breech. With the Nitro-Z, the port for the hardline was enlarged to 1/8"npt, and the chamber added in its place. The 3rd party setups added a 1/8" port on the other side, and retained the factory hardline

[Brokeass_baller]

Does that all work though? Is that enough to make them usable on HPA?

[Meleager7]

But..... all I own is early 90s guns that will not run HPA. Its easy enough to rent a siphon bulk tank, but no commercial field will let you use it on the field. I've had some luck prefilling all my tanks at home, and just using them til empty, but thats not really a solution.

Do you have a pickup truck? You could hide a 20lb tank pretty easy back there. Use flashbangs and enola gaye smokes liberally as a distraction in the parking lot , as you fill your empty co2 tanks !

[DocsMachine]

Does that all work though? Is that enough to make them usable on HPA?

-I have a Mega-Z, and two parts-box Z-1s (missing parts I'll have to fab) that I'm planning on trying this on.

Doc.

[Hp_lovecraft]

For reference, these are what they look like: 3-rd party, and factory:

[Chappy]

How’d I miss this thread?!?
I am currently working on getting one of my mega zs set up to run nitro and I’m ditching the vert asa. When I get some progress and pics I’ll share how I’m doing to add to this discussion. Planning to start with braided line and add volume as needed until I get there.

a couple points of note:
The Zs’ back bodies are all different where volume around the valve is concerned. Some only have the hole but some are hogged inside around the valve to add volume. I would assume these would work better with hpa.
Power tubes, not all z power tubes are created equal. Some have longer pins on the hammer side. More importantly some have bigger ports. The difference is small, but it is noticeable. Again I would assume larger ports = more airflow and longer pin = valve open longer, both good for hpa.
As for hammers, I believe that they started using a heavier longer hammer in the nitros at some point. That weight should help.
I’ve never tested any of these a to b , so can’t say 100%, but the logic makes sense.

[Chappy]

Nitro’d Z1 with the factory volumizer and vert asa. Has the long hammer and an unstamped valve that I modified a bit( enlarged the valve body ports mostly). Ninja SHP into the palmers stab running at about 800psi. This sweet spots around that, and I’m pretty happy to be averaging 300 fps with the velocity adjuster all the way out. I’m hoping to use this quite a bit this summer.

[NONOBLITUS]

Ummmmmmmmm that is awesome.