I finally got around to it...

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  • Drunkscriblerian
    MCB Member
    • May 2023
    • 224

    #1

    I finally got around to it...

    Yup, I finally did it. My beloved PGP from high school is officially In Pieces.

    I won't bore you with the details (its taking apart a PGP, some of y'all can probably do that in your sleep) but suffice to say, I got the thing down to its bits with minimal effort; even the valve came out without too much trouble, although I did have to pound the valve body out with a dowel. Anyhow, here's what came out of the lower tube, in the order it came out:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	1000004633.jpg Views:	11 Size:	4.26 MB ID:	877069

    As you can see there was not much left of ANY of the valve seals. Both O-rings had disintegrated into basically black stains, and the cup seal is just a few crumbled bits of schoo inside the front of the valve. Unsurprising, as since the lead washer was still present the valve has not been disassembled since the gun was built decades ago. Fortunately I have replacements for all. The valve components are also quite grotty, being all covered in sticky black gunk I attribute to the steady diet of Crosman Powerelets this guy was fed back when I used it in the 90s (plus who knows what else was put through it before I owned it - again, it was already beat up and used when I bought it in 1995). I figure a good cleaning is in order before reassembly.

    However, I did have a couple of questions before I get too much further:

    -I noticed that the tip of the piercer (the sharp bit) is a tad wiggly. is it supposed to be like that or should I replace it? I have a spare from Palmer's, but if I don't have to use it I'd rather save it for another gun should one wash up on my beach. It still seems to be sharp despite being a tad loose.

    -There was a black ring of...something that was stuck on the brass valve body between the front bit and the brass cylinder. It isn't called out in the specs listed here. Is that just a remnant of the o-ring that's supposed to be there, or something else? It appears to have (or rather once had) a square profile so I doubt it was a ring. Any ideas?

    -There's likewise a black ring of...stuff...on the rim of the valve that likewise isn't called out as a place for an O-ring (the bit I'm pointing at with the piercer);

    Click image for larger version  Name:	1000004635.jpg Views:	10 Size:	7.18 MB ID:	877070

    Is that another o-ring remnant, or something else that's supposed to be there? In the specs I've seen on here the O-ring sits behind that (on the narrower part of the cylinder) but I've seen similar black rings on other Sheridan valves pictured here. Should I leave it, or clean it off?

    Anyhow, thanks in advance for any advice y'all have. I'm going to busy myself cleaning the obvious ick off the rest of the valve, and try to figure out what the other black objects might be. Thus far however, my first Sheridan rebuild so far goes well.

    Cheers!

    ***ETA: I discovered the exact size of the front sight hex bolt section is 3/16". not sure if that was a known fact before, but it is now. ***
    Last edited by Drunkscriblerian; 09-02-2026, 12:01 AM.
  • Swedgin!!
    Simple Space Monkey
    • Jul 2023
    • 936
    • 21.3330° N, 157.6976° W

    #2
    https://pgpjunkies.bigcartel.com/
    This place has all your needs to bring it back to life

    Also good info here
    https://mcarterbrown.com/forum/paint...screws-and-all
    Leave Feedback if you wants. https://www.mcarterbrown.com/forum/b...edgin-feedback

    Comment

    • Drunkscriblerian
      MCB Member
      • May 2023
      • 224

      #3
      Originally posted by Swedgin!!
      https://pgpjunkies.bigcartel.com/
      This place has all your needs to bring it back to life

      Also good info here
      https://mcarterbrown.com/forum/paint...screws-and-all
      Thanks, I definitely plan on hitting up PGPJ for some new screws for the grip frame, my current ones are on their last legs. Maybe even some brass ones, although I am seriously debating a K-frame for this guy.

      Speaking of, here's what it looked like before I started messing with it;

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      It was my very favorite gun back in the day, hope to be shooting it soon.

      Comment


      • Swedgin!!
        Swedgin!! commented
        Editing a comment
        Also get a new cup seal/piercer from them. A K frame is on my list as well. Gotta love the old brass

      • BigRed
        BigRed commented
        Editing a comment
        That patina on the brass is sooo nice! I wouldn’t do a think to that!

      • Drunkscriblerian
        Drunkscriblerian commented
        Editing a comment
        @BigRed: The more I clean the gun body up the more I'm convinced I should keep it. The initial plan was to polish it but I do really like the color, so I think I'll wait on owning a blinged-out brass gun.
    • gabe
      Thirst Trappin
      • Jul 2020
      • 1071
      • Alaska

      #4
      That ring on the valve is a lead ring. I think it's just there to cushion the valve against the body so they don't gall with repeated hammer impacts.

      Comment

      • Drunkscriblerian
        MCB Member
        • May 2023
        • 224

        #5
        Update; I did a bunch of cleanup work on the valve, due to the various bits being covered in black gunk. Most of the body was easily cleaned up with WD-40 and Q-tips, plus a vigorous scrubbing in dish soap and water. Particular care was paid to any place that would end up holding an O-ring, as WD and rubber seals make evil magic together.

        However, once I got to where the face seal was supposed to go the cavity was filled with a bunch of....well, something. I'm not sure what it was (it was the vague color and consistency of dried caramel) but WD didn't touch it and when I tried to scrape it out with a toothpick the the toothpick just snapped. Even soaking the tip of the valve in WD for an hour didn't do a thing. My SO recommended I try some 91% isopropyl alcohol, which did have an effect immediately so I decided on a bath of that.

        Click image for larger version  Name:	1000004637.jpg Views:	5 Size:	3.15 MB ID:	877393

        After a few hours the crud softened into something more like goop, and after some diligent work with Q-tips and toothpicks I was able to remove it all. (Note: I am loath to use metal tools to try and remove gunk, as I have no idea what the valve piece is made of and I don't want to damage it.) From there, it was a simple matter to work the face seal into the cavity where its supposed to live.

        I also decided to simply use the piercer that came with the PPS rebuild kit I have, as PGPJ also sells them so I figured there's no reason to try and limp the old one along for a few more bloops. While I was waiting for the crud to soften I also cleaned up the bolt and got the new O-ring installed on it.

        Click image for larger version  Name:	1000004638.jpg Views:	4 Size:	3.84 MB ID:	877394

        Yep, that is indeed a cut-down Speed Demon bolt; I purchased it in '97 and had it modded for me by Semper Fi Paintball Supply (RIP). It cost a fair amount for an 18 year old at the time, but I remember the gun shooting muuuuch better than it did with the stock bolt. These days I'm really glad I sprung for that mod, as apparently Speed Demons are hard to come by now.

        Anyway, it was 'round about this time I re-looked at the specs for the valve on the sticky thread here and did a bit of a dope-smack. I'd been misreading the plan regarding where the second o-ring went; it went where the ring of black "stuff" was still sitting (the "stuff" being a half-dead O-ring, of course...duur).

        At that point I set to removing it, but after thirty some years of being right at home in its slot, it adopted a "HELL NO, I WON'T GO!" attitude. After much wiggling, finangling, fussing and cussing I did manage to get it loose, all the while promising myself that I really will spring for a damn O-ring pick. Seriously, trying to get a recalcitrant ring out of its slot without one is a serious PITA. But I got it. Looks like there was at least one sorta-intact ring in here after all.

        Click image for larger version  Name:	1000004639.jpg Views:	4 Size:	3.47 MB ID:	877395

        So, valve fully reconditioned. Next question; how in the fark do I get the completed valve back in the gun??

        Click image for larger version  Name:	1000004641.jpg Views:	4 Size:	4.31 MB ID:	877396

        So far, I tried just dropping the whole valve in from the 12ie end - no dice, it got hung up on the nutsert. Tried inserting the whole works in from the rear - nope, the front part of the valve doesn't clear the jam nut threads. Tried putting the rear segment on the puller part of my valve tool and sliding it in, then sliding the rest in from the opposite way - nuh-uh, the nutsert became a problem again.

        I'm sure there is something really basic I'm missing here, and when I either figure it out or someone clues me in I'm probably gonna feel very, very dumb. Oh well, time to keep f**king around until I find out. Not the end of the world if I don't get it here in the next little bit, as it is rapidly growing too dark outside for a shooting test anyway.

        Still, progress was made and I'm pretty sure I haven't broken anything yet. That's something at least.

        ******ETA*******

        ...Success!!

        Looks like that little black "mystery seal" (the one at the front of the brass cylinder) was to blame. It came out of the gun in that location so I assumed it should go back in, since there was no replacement for it in the rebuild kit and I figured what the heck, it had to be there for a reason. However, it simply would not let me stick the valve back in the body -likely it was hanging up on the jam nut threads. When I took it out of the mix and tried again, the valve slid neatly into place. A few minutes of reassembly later and my PGP is fully back together again.

        Unfortunately I cannot test it tonight as it is way too late for any click-clack-BLOOP shenanigans (the neighbors might call the cops) but you better believe I'll be dropping a cart in it tomorrow.


        Last edited by Drunkscriblerian; Yesterday, 12:20 AM.

        Comment


        • JeepDVLZ45
          JeepDVLZ45 commented
          Editing a comment
          That little black mystery seal is the lead seal. No need for it…not sure why it was ever there to begin with, other than being a tasty little snack 🤔
          Good clean up job! I need to pull mine apart and do the same…maybe I’ll do it tonight
      • Drunkscriblerian
        MCB Member
        • May 2023
        • 224

        #6
        Well, we have a partial success. I dug out my supply of old paint and even older Powerlets, headed outside, dropped a 12ie into the gun, cranked the cap down and (somewhat hesitantly) pulled the trigger. It sealed up! A quick trip out to the backyard with some tubes of paint yielded 30 decent shots. I don't have a chrono, but according to the Mark 1 Mod 0 Binocular Measuring Device the paintballs were moving at a consistent speed for the first 25 shots. Rounds number 26-30 showed a slight but definite drop off in velocity, and there was only a mild bit of escaping gas when I opened the cap.

        Gotta say, honking some paint downrange with this for the first time in 25 years felt pretty damn good. Like shaking hands with a long-lost friend.

        Click image for larger version

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        However, a new problem has surfaced. The empty 12ie is refusing to clear the quick-change collar. I do remember this was a problem; once upon a time I took a nasty spill during a game and my PGP got whacked against a tree as I fell, damaging the quick-changer. Now, I thought I had fixed this issue but apparently it has now resurfaced. Looks like I will need to figure out a way to remove the collar so I can figure out what's gone wrong with it, and may need to replace the quick-changer if too much stuff ended up bent.

        Still, it now works! Its a good feeling, when a project comes together.

        Comment

        • Drunkscriblerian
          MCB Member
          • May 2023
          • 224

          #7
          I decided to attack the "12ie-not-extracting" problem a little more. A big part of the issue is that the quick-change collar (the part that screws into the gun body) absolutely refused to come out despite a bit of penetrating oil and a few love taps with a mallet. So I reached into my bag of tricks and came out with one I'd seen on YouTube, specifically a channel I follow where two guys rebuild half-destroyed firearms. It involves zip ties and a pair of pliers:

          Click image for larger version  Name:	1000004660.jpg Views:	1 Size:	4.27 MB ID:	877645

          Just use the zip-ties as a guard on the piece you mean to extract (as below) and use whatever tool you need (pliers in this case) to extract the recalcitrant part without the tool's jaws munging up said piece.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	1000004661.jpg Views:	1 Size:	3.44 MB ID:	877646

          A quick turn of the Chanel-Locks and the quick-change collar was freed, likewise the stuck 12ie.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	1000004662.jpg Views:	1 Size:	3.51 MB ID:	877647

          (By the way the price tag on the 12ie says 59c...that should give you a general idea how old it was.)

          There is no detectable damage to either the gun body threads or the threads on the quick-change collar. Likewise the 12ie slides in and out of the gun body without the collar no problem. However, when I try to slide the 12ie through the collar it binds and gets stuck around here:

          Click image for larger version  Name:	1000004663.jpg Views:	1 Size:	3.25 MB ID:	877648

          A bit of a push can send the 12ie through the collar, but when its in the gun shaking it out is impossible. I'm wondering if maybe my supply of old cartridges is to blame; since they are literally decades old maybe they've swelled slightly due to having been under pressure for so long. The local hardware store does carry 12grams in their BB gun section so maybe a trip there is in order.

          Also grabbed a pic of the spent cart. While there is zero dimpling on the seal, the hole does look a tad large to me:

          Click image for larger version  Name:	1000004665.jpg Views:	1 Size:	6.34 MB ID:	877649

          Anyone want to weigh in? I did seem to get good shooting out of it but once again, I don't have a chrono.

          ***ETA***

          ...Yep, old carts were to blame. A quick trip to the local hardware store got me some fresh ones, those slide in and out without any headache. However, my SO just went down for a nap so further testing will have to wait until she wakes up. My first shooting test woke her up and she was none too thrilled about the fact, and I refuse to risk the wrath of the missus a second time.

          Comment

          • Drunkscriblerian
            MCB Member
            • May 2023
            • 224

            #8
            I appear to have hit a snag. While the fresh Daisy-brand cartridges I bought slide in and out of the gun just fine, when I went to charge one up it just PSSSHed its way out the gun. I did notice the two carts do have some dimensional differences (see below ) so maybe the Daisy brand carts don't work in Sheridans.

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            Also the seal breaches look different; the Crosman has a much bigger, cleaner hole, whereas the Daisy cart has a much smaller hole but there's a pronounced bulge in the seal which wasn't there when I dropped it in:

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            So hrm. I had always assume that (fill aside) all 12ies were created equal. Clearly I was mistaken. Anyhow I plan on looking at mundane solutions (and another test with both types of carts) before I go cracking the valve again. I like to explore simple solutions before reaching for the most complex one.

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