I finally got around to it...

[Drunkscriblerian]

Yup, I finally did it. My beloved PGP from high school is officially In Pieces.

I won't bore you with the details (its taking apart a PGP, some of y'all can probably do that in your sleep) but suffice to say, I got the thing down to its bits with minimal effort; even the valve came out without too much trouble, although I did have to pound the valve body out with a dowel. Anyhow, here's what came out of the lower tube, in the order it came out:



As you can see there was not much left of ANY of the valve seals. Both O-rings had disintegrated into basically black stains, and the cup seal is just a few crumbled bits of schoo inside the front of the valve. Unsurprising, as since the lead washer was still present the valve has not been disassembled since the gun was built decades ago. Fortunately I have replacements for all. The valve components are also quite grotty, being all covered in sticky black gunk I attribute to the steady diet of Crosman Powerelets this guy was fed back when I used it in the 90s (plus who knows what else was put through it before I owned it - again, it was already beat up and used when I bought it in 1995). I figure a good cleaning is in order before reassembly.

However, I did have a couple of questions before I get too much further:

-I noticed that the tip of the piercer (the sharp bit) is a tad wiggly. is it supposed to be like that or should I replace it? I have a spare from Palmer's, but if I don't have to use it I'd rather save it for another gun should one wash up on my beach. It still seems to be sharp despite being a tad loose.

-There was a black ring of...something that was stuck on the brass valve body between the front bit and the brass cylinder. It isn't called out in the specs listed here. Is that just a remnant of the o-ring that's supposed to be there, or something else? It appears to have (or rather once had) a square profile so I doubt it was a ring. Any ideas?

-There's likewise a black ring of...stuff...on the rim of the valve that likewise isn't called out as a place for an O-ring (the bit I'm pointing at with the piercer);



Is that another o-ring remnant, or something else that's supposed to be there? In the specs I've seen on here the O-ring sits behind that (on the narrower part of the cylinder) but I've seen similar black rings on other Sheridan valves pictured here. Should I leave it, or clean it off?

Anyhow, thanks in advance for any advice y'all have. I'm going to busy myself cleaning the obvious ick off the rest of the valve, and try to figure out what the other black objects might be. Thus far however, my first Sheridan rebuild so far goes well.

Cheers!

***ETA: I discovered the exact size of the front sight hex bolt section is 3/16". not sure if that was a known fact before, but it is now. ***

[Swedgin!!]

https://pgpjunkies.bigcartel.com/
This place has all your needs to bring it back to life

Also good info here
https://mcarterbrown.com/forum/paint...screws-and-all

[Drunkscriblerian]

https://pgpjunkies.bigcartel.com/
This place has all your needs to bring it back to life

Also good info here
https://mcarterbrown.com/forum/paint...screws-and-all

Thanks, I definitely plan on hitting up PGPJ for some new screws for the grip frame, my current ones are on their last legs. Maybe even some brass ones, although I am seriously debating a K-frame for this guy.

Speaking of, here's what it looked like before I started messing with it;



It was my very favorite gun back in the day, hope to be shooting it soon.

[Swedgin!!]

Also get a new cup seal/piercer from them. A K frame is on my list as well. Gotta love the old brass

[BigRed]

That patina on the brass is sooo nice! I wouldn’t do a think to that!

[Drunkscriblerian]

@BigRed: The more I clean the gun body up the more I'm convinced I should keep it. The initial plan was to polish it but I do really like the color, so I think I'll wait on owning a blinged-out brass gun.

[gabe]

That ring on the valve is a lead ring. I think it's just there to cushion the valve against the body so they don't gall with repeated hammer impacts.

[Drunkscriblerian]

Update; I did a bunch of cleanup work on the valve, due to the various bits being covered in black gunk. Most of the body was easily cleaned up with WD-40 and Q-tips, plus a vigorous scrubbing in dish soap and water. Particular care was paid to any place that would end up holding an O-ring, as WD and rubber seals make evil magic together.

However, once I got to where the face seal was supposed to go the cavity was filled with a bunch of....well, something. I'm not sure what it was (it was the vague color and consistency of dried caramel) but WD didn't touch it and when I tried to scrape it out with a toothpick the the toothpick just snapped. Even soaking the tip of the valve in WD for an hour didn't do a thing. My SO recommended I try some 91% isopropyl alcohol, which did have an effect immediately so I decided on a bath of that.



After a few hours the crud softened into something more like goop, and after some diligent work with Q-tips and toothpicks I was able to remove it all. (Note: I am loath to use metal tools to try and remove gunk, as I have no idea what the valve piece is made of and I don't want to damage it.) From there, it was a simple matter to work the face seal into the cavity where its supposed to live.

I also decided to simply use the piercer that came with the PPS rebuild kit I have, as PGPJ also sells them so I figured there's no reason to try and limp the old one along for a few more bloops. While I was waiting for the crud to soften I also cleaned up the bolt and got the new O-ring installed on it.



Yep, that is indeed a cut-down Speed Demon bolt; I purchased it in '97 and had it modded for me by Semper Fi Paintball Supply (RIP). It cost a fair amount for an 18 year old at the time, but I remember the gun shooting muuuuch better than it did with the stock bolt. These days I'm really glad I sprung for that mod, as apparently Speed Demons are hard to come by now.

Anyway, it was 'round about this time I re-looked at the specs for the valve on the sticky thread here and did a bit of a dope-smack. I'd been misreading the plan regarding where the second o-ring went; it went where the ring of black "stuff" was still sitting (the "stuff" being a half-dead O-ring, of course...duur).

At that point I set to removing it, but after thirty some years of being right at home in its slot, it adopted a "HELL NO, I WON'T GO!" attitude. After much wiggling, finangling, fussing and cussing I did manage to get it loose, all the while promising myself that I really will spring for a damn O-ring pick. Seriously, trying to get a recalcitrant ring out of its slot without one is a serious PITA. But I got it. Looks like there was at least one sorta-intact ring in here after all.



So, valve fully reconditioned. Next question; how in the fark do I get the completed valve back in the gun??



So far, I tried just dropping the whole valve in from the 12ie end - no dice, it got hung up on the nutsert. Tried inserting the whole works in from the rear - nope, the front part of the valve doesn't clear the jam nut threads. Tried putting the rear segment on the puller part of my valve tool and sliding it in, then sliding the rest in from the opposite way - nuh-uh, the nutsert became a problem again.

I'm sure there is something really basic I'm missing here, and when I either figure it out or someone clues me in I'm probably gonna feel very, very dumb. Oh well, time to keep f**king around until I find out. Not the end of the world if I don't get it here in the next little bit, as it is rapidly growing too dark outside for a shooting test anyway.

Still, progress was made and I'm pretty sure I haven't broken anything yet. That's something at least.

******ETA*******

...Success!!

Looks like that little black "mystery seal" (the one at the front of the brass cylinder) was to blame. It came out of the gun in that location so I assumed it should go back in, since there was no replacement for it in the rebuild kit and I figured what the heck, it had to be there for a reason. However, it simply would not let me stick the valve back in the body -likely it was hanging up on the jam nut threads. When I took it out of the mix and tried again, the valve slid neatly into place. A few minutes of reassembly later and my PGP is fully back together again.

Unfortunately I cannot test it tonight as it is way too late for any click-clack-BLOOP shenanigans (the neighbors might call the cops) but you better believe I'll be dropping a cart in it tomorrow.

[JeepDVLZ45]

That little black mystery seal is the lead seal. No need for it…not sure why it was ever there to begin with, other than being a tasty little snack 🤔
Good clean up job! I need to pull mine apart and do the same…maybe I’ll do it tonight

[Drunkscriblerian]

Well, we have a partial success. I dug out my supply of old paint and even older Powerlets, headed outside, dropped a 12ie into the gun, cranked the cap down and (somewhat hesitantly) pulled the trigger. It sealed up! A quick trip out to the backyard with some tubes of paint yielded 30 decent shots. I don't have a chrono, but according to the Mark 1 Mod 0 Binocular Measuring Device the paintballs were moving at a consistent speed for the first 25 shots. Rounds number 26-30 showed a slight but definite drop off in velocity, and there was only a mild bit of escaping gas when I opened the cap.

Gotta say, honking some paint downrange with this for the first time in 25 years felt pretty damn good. Like shaking hands with a long-lost friend.



However, a new problem has surfaced. The empty 12ie is refusing to clear the quick-change collar. I do remember this was a problem; once upon a time I took a nasty spill during a game and my PGP got whacked against a tree as I fell, damaging the quick-changer. Now, I thought I had fixed this issue but apparently it has now resurfaced. Looks like I will need to figure out a way to remove the collar so I can figure out what's gone wrong with it, and may need to replace the quick-changer if too much stuff ended up bent.

Still, it now works! Its a good feeling, when a project comes together.

[Drunkscriblerian]

I decided to attack the "12ie-not-extracting" problem a little more. A big part of the issue is that the quick-change collar (the part that screws into the gun body) absolutely refused to come out despite a bit of penetrating oil and a few love taps with a mallet. So I reached into my bag of tricks and came out with one I'd seen on YouTube, specifically a channel I follow where two guys rebuild half-destroyed firearms. It involves zip ties and a pair of pliers:



Just use the zip-ties as a guard on the piece you mean to extract (as below) and use whatever tool you need (pliers in this case) to extract the recalcitrant part without the tool's jaws munging up said piece.



A quick turn of the Chanel-Locks and the quick-change collar was freed, likewise the stuck 12ie.



(By the way the price tag on the 12ie says 59c...that should give you a general idea how old it was.)

There is no detectable damage to either the gun body threads or the threads on the quick-change collar. Likewise the 12ie slides in and out of the gun body without the collar no problem. However, when I try to slide the 12ie through the collar it binds and gets stuck around here:



A bit of a push can send the 12ie through the collar, but when its in the gun shaking it out is impossible. I'm wondering if maybe my supply of old cartridges is to blame; since they are literally decades old maybe they've swelled slightly due to having been under pressure for so long. The local hardware store does carry 12grams in their BB gun section so maybe a trip there is in order.

Also grabbed a pic of the spent cart. While there is zero dimpling on the seal, the hole does look a tad large to me:



Anyone want to weigh in? I did seem to get good shooting out of it but once again, I don't have a chrono.

***ETA***

...Yep, old carts were to blame. A quick trip to the local hardware store got me some fresh ones, those slide in and out without any headache. However, my SO just went down for a nap so further testing will have to wait until she wakes up. My first shooting test woke her up and she was none too thrilled about the fact, and I refuse to risk the wrath of the missus a second time.

[Drunkscriblerian]

I appear to have hit a snag. While the fresh Daisy-brand cartridges I bought slide in and out of the gun just fine, when I went to charge one up it just PSSSHed its way out the gun. I did notice the two carts do have some dimensional differences (see below ) so maybe the Daisy brand carts don't work in Sheridans.



Also the seal breaches look different; the Crosman has a much bigger, cleaner hole, whereas the Daisy cart has a much smaller hole but there's a pronounced bulge in the seal which wasn't there when I dropped it in:



So hrm. I had always assume that (fill aside) all 12ies were created equal. Clearly I was mistaken. Anyhow I plan on looking at mundane solutions (and another test with both types of carts) before I go cracking the valve again. I like to explore simple solutions before reaching for the most complex one.

[BigRed]

If you are dumping the the air down the barrel after piercing then it’s likely your cup seal. Have you tried more than one cartridge?

Leland 12g are the gold standard if you’re looking something different.

[Drunkscriblerian]

The gas is escaping from around the front grip screw, and its done that with two carts so far. My theory is that for whatever reason, the 12 gram cartridge tip and the valve nose aren't meeting properly. I plan to take it apart again today and see what's up.

I do plan on ordering some Leland carts once I figure out why this gun isn't sealing properly, I've heard a lot of good things about them here.

[Drunkscriblerian]

The PGP kept failing to seal, so I cracked the valve once more to see what was amiss:



(It should be noted that this time I had the valve out in under two minutes. The first time took me almost an hour, so I guess I am at the least learnin' stuff.)

After repeated analysis of both PGPJ's video on component valves and the specs listed here in the Armory's sticky thread, I couldn't conclude that I'd put anything back in wrong. Since the gas was escaping out of the front grip frame screw, I posited that the nose of the 12-gram cart and the front of the valve weren't meeting properly for some reason. Because of that I decided to put the lead washer back into the valve-train, on the theory that it couldn't hurt anything (it was there before after all) and might help. For the same reason I put a slight amount of oil on the O-rings, face seal and moving parts of the valve.

It took a bit of fussing to get the valve back in properly, but once I did...she sealed up nice! I put a couple of tubes of paint downrange and even charged up a second cart just to make sure the first wasn't some kind of fluke. Nope...to paraphrase Scott from Kentucky Ballistics, "SHE BE BLOOPIN'!"




Nice to actually have this thing work for the first time in decades. Seriously, the last time I fired my PGP I still had all my hair and couldn't grow a decent beard to save my life.

However a new problem has entered the chat. The Speed Demon's retaining bearings aren't doing their job and the bolt is bouncing back with each shot. So, it looks like disassembling the SD and seeing what's up with it will be my next project.

Stay tuned as I (the Sheridan tinkering noob) continue to f**k around until I find out!

[trashcollector]

If you guys keep posting this stuff, I’ll have to put a PGP/Sheridan markers on my wishlist.

[Drunkscriblerian]

Doo eet!

[Drunkscriblerian]

Next up: Attempting to diagnose what's wrong with my SD bolt and why it won't stop bouncing.

Like I said in an earlier post, this SD bolt was custom-shoehorned into my PGP by a long defunct airsmith's shop back in the 90s. I spent some time studying the exploded-parts diagram for a stock SD (thanks guys for preserving that) and while the back end of the bolt looks fairly standard, the front part...doesn't.



So I guess its up to me to attempt to decipher whatever redneck technomancy Carl at Semper Fi Paintball Supply did to get the SD into my PGP. What did you do, Carl??



I started out the old-fashioned way; poking Allen keys into holes that looked appropriate-sized, just to see what I could unscrew (insert Beavis and Butt-Head giggles here). All I managed to find was how to undo the plunger that connects with the hammer;



And that a 1/16th Allen fits through the bolt via a hole where the as-built diagram says some sort of pin should be;



Well the spring for the plunger is definitely still spry, so I just put that back in as removing it got me no closer to disassembling the bolt proper. I know the slider half has to come off the front SOMEhow, but further poking about proved fruitless. I tried setting a wrench on the hexagonal portion of the back end, no dice. I tried locking the pin which slides back and forth to hold the pump arm in several different ways to see if it would unscrew...nope.

Hrm.

I should note that the ball bearings *do* move a little when the plunger is cycled. Here it is with the bolt "closed":



And here with the bolt "open":



As can also be seen the bearings are somewhat "floppy" in their housings, which I don't remember from before. It would seem something up inside the bolt itself is worn out or worn down, but how to get at it is so far proving beyond my ability to see. I'll keep poking at it, but I'm definitely running out of ideas to try.

Further bulletins as events warrant.

[Drunkscriblerian]

Aaaaaand its time for dope-smack number two, folks.

Upon closer examination of the through-hole in the bolt (and requesting my SO's far superior up-close vision) I discovered that hey, that hole does in fact have a pin driven into it.



This pin was in fact on the as-built plans, but at first glance all I saw was a hole and assumed the pin/spring/whatever (those old Sheridan line drawings are not exactly clear) was something the airsmith simply removed during the modding process. In my defense I have terrible up-close vision, and didn't think to reach for my more powerful reading glasses before beginning this project. And I did keep going back to this hole, reasoning there SIMPLY HAD to be SOMEthing there.

With this new information, I'm guessing that pin sits in a shoulder in the slider-bit, and knocking it out allows the two halves of the bolt to separate (hopefully) giving me access to the ball bearings and whatever might be broken/worn out in there.

Ah well. Now I know what I need to do. Trouble is, I don't have a punch set. I guess there will be a trip to the hardware store in my future.

As an aside, does anyone know what punch size this thing takes? I'm guessing bigger than 1/16th but not that much more so.

[Drunkscriblerian]

Update: Pin punch acquired, Speed Demon disassembled!

Since I had to do a couple of honey-do projects today which necessitated a trip to the hardware store, I decided to pick up a punch set while I was there. After completing said honey-do projects it was back to my PGP project. I determined that a 3/32 punch would do the job, and after a few false starts involving attempts to get the proper angle to punch out a pin on a round object ("stop ROLLING dammit!" was a common phrase) the pin came out with a couple of sharp taps:



And from there, the bolt came apart quite handily.



Upon examining the components more closely and looking at pictures of stock bolts (both standard PGP and Speed Demon) it looks like what Carl did was take a standard PGP bolt and mill it out to accept Speed Demon internals. Pretty clever, really. Not sure how common this mod was back in the day, but again I'm glad I sprung for it when I did.

Anyhow, after cleaning out all the gook which had built up inside the bolt's mechanism, I was able to find the culprit; the O-ring around the front of the shaft (which I'm guessing provides the locking action for the ball bearings) has a bunch of flat spots worn into it. Considering the ball bearings sometimes lock into place and sometimes don't I would venture to say that ring is worn down to the point where it needs replacement. Consulting my handy sizing chart (God I luuuurve this work mat!) It looks to be a #011:



So now I know what part I need. Trouble is, I'm a noob at this whole "tinkering" thing and as such I don't have an on-hand source of parts that I can just dig through. I guess the next step is sourcing some O-rings.

Still, feeling pretty accomplished so far considering up to now all I've really done tech-wise is field-strip and clean my markers, and occasionally replace a balky O-ring...and most of that experience was almost 30 years ago when I was still in high school. Definitely feels like trying to get my old PGP up and running has taught me a lot, and I get the impression there's a lot more to learn.

Now I guess its time to go O-ring shopping. Onward and upward!

[jonbobshinigin]

Keep sharing! I am enjoying the adventure. Also visit my post about Sheridan Efficiency once you are up and running. I am curios about how many shots you get from a 12g above 240fps.

[Drunkscriblerian]

The package from PGP Junkies arrived and I got a bunch of the stuff installed, but I forgot to take pictures. Oh well, its putting in screws. I'm sure you all have imaginations. Anyway, I am hella thrilled with the result; I was unconvinced that adding brass screws to the frame and grip would make much of a difference, but surprise surprise they actually do add a nice touch of "class".





Also added the RVA and swapped out the hammer spring for the lighter one in addition to putting a new O-ring on the Speed Demon mechanism and re-assembling it. Unfortunately, Officer Friendly decided to park his cruiser across the street from my backyard all afternoon in an effort to catch speeders, so that nixed a shooting test for today. Yes, shooting a paintball marker on private property is technically 100% legal...but I live in a small town, the cops are often bored and I didn't feel like getting into a conversation with the boys in blue.

Oh well, tomorrow is a new day.

[Myfeetupontheground]

Hey! PGP Junkies Here! I am so glad the products worked out for you! And thank you for saying where you got them! I love seeing the products from PGP Junkies making a difference.