98 Low Pressure questions and findings

[Trbo323]

Ah, so that makes sense about the X7 and the Phenom. The Phenom operates on 300 psi NOT the X7. Good to know.

So this is the stem I'm talking about. TA10052. So now I'm thinking that the Warrior valve I put in is a 2” valve right? And it came with the TA10052? The stem is noticeably longer than my stock stem.

So the 2” valves offer better velocity according to Tippmann, if I'm processing this correctly.

Yeah idk what tippmann was thinking naming the x7 and then x7 phenom because they are completely different markers internally

As for what you have, idk, because the TA10052 is speced for the x7 2" valve but that valve body will not work in the 98 because the A5 and x7 use the tombstone connection not a 1/8npt so the warrior valve body can't be the same one for the x7. Just thinking about it I think the A5 and x7 valve bodies are wider than the 98

The valve stem I can see being the same TA10052 though, just looking at it I don't see any reason it couldn't be put into a 98 valve body

I find it funny that tippmann was having people have problems getting up to velocity. I've seen plenty of 98c where the owner only put like a 14 or 16 inch barrel on it. And then it wouldn't shoot UNDER 300fps.

But, add a cyclone and RT, while still using the stock barrel and today's small paint I could see situations where there's not enough airflow

Sent from my motorola edge 2024 using Tapatalk

[FlightMedic938]

It also has a white cup seal. I’m going to try and figure it out soon

[FlightMedic938]

I got a TA10052 yesterday and it’s 1 to 1.5mm longer than the 98PL and weighs the same. It’s also the same as the stem in the Warrior valve with the only difference being the Warrior stem has a clear cup seal.

[FlightMedic938]

Another finding, the TA10052 is the same length as the A5 low pressure stem. The A5 LPK stem is a smidge heavier on the scale.

[FlightMedic938]

Here’s a pic of it. I have a centerfeed I need to put on. Last thing I need is an aluminum double trigger guard. If anybody has one FS please DM me.

I might paint it or may leave it as is since I’ve had this for 26 years now. Undecided on that.

[uv_halo]

Did you mod the LP kit to run that reg directly? I’m pretty sure that’s a detriment. An air reservoir directly connected to the valve will be more responsive and better flowing than a reg valve. That’s why paintball manufacturers never put a reg right up against the bolt and, why there’s something like the firechamber behind the bolt (even in the automag).

What’s the deal with that Warrior Valve? The only description I found (via ANS Gear) is that it’s a standard drop-in replacement (meaning meant to run at 850ish PSI). The picture looks to me that it uses the standard depth and width grooves (I can’t tell about the valve pin and valve spring).

If you run an HP valve (incl. spring and pin), with all of the other LP kit components, while feeding the gun 400FPS:

• Velocity will be lower due to not enough 400PSI air making it around the outside of the valve and out the powertube fast enough.
• The stronger valve spring may further reduce the valve dwell and further reduce velocity, while also not likely opening up enough to properly cycle the cyclone or, response (they don’t rely on the LP channels or the blowback aperture but, the dwell might not be enough).

Running an HP valve and the rest of the low pressure kit components at high pressure (800ish) should work but, the response kit and the cyclone may be too violent due to the higher flow rate accompanied with higher pressure. Velocity should be fine but, blowback may be excessive.

The hammer looks to be the correct design but, the original did not allow for any adjustment of the re-cocking spring. I’m not certain but, I think the LP kit spring was lighter since the hammer is lighter and the valve spring is lighter compared to stock. If you're running the hammer spring tighter, and the blowback pressure is high enough, that might present too much resistance and, cause the hammer o-ring to get blown.

This is all based on my experience of starting with a stock 98C, switching to the Low Pressure kit and, the E-bolt and then settling on the LPK and, the response trigger. In that time, I even modified a low pressure valve to disable blowback (not needed for E-bolt). However, it's been a long time since I've had the Tippmann (I sold it to another forum member before the forum takedown).

[FlightMedic938]

There are 2 air reservoirs. Pre-valve and directly in to the valve. The pre-valve feeds the direct valve.

I’m really not sure. I bought it because it looked nice. It does have a TA10052 stem though, I confirmed that. It performs great. Inside the valve I have a lightened valve spring and a smaller valve plug. I got it on a chrono the other day and was shooting hot @ 290-305. That’s with the lightest spring I have turned all the way in with the RVA. I was able to back out the RVA and get it to 270-290. Most shots were within my target range of 270-280 but I’d get hot first shots. So consistency is the goal now. I’m sure the answer in an inline with lots of volume but I’m going to try and find and even lighter main spring to see if that’ll do it first. Another possibility is using a heavier front bolt like a RAP4 aluminum. It weighs x3 more than the stock front bolt. I’m going to try that as well.

The hammer I’m using is a lightened hammer. A TechT Zero Kick hammer. The Tippmann LPK hammer spring is very light so if I can find a similar tension that would be great.

Thanks for the feedback. Did you like the Ebolt? I’ve occasionally bounced around the idea of getting one in my brain

[uv_halo]

That's a CP reg mounted in the vertical (non-foregrip section) adapter right?
I can't remember for certain but, I think the LP Valve pin had a different profile than the stock (narrower in the open position, IIRC). I don't remember the length or weight being different.

The setup you have now seems to be entirely on how you have your spring/RVA setup (increasing your dwell), which isn't ideal- your reg should be more consistent.

Honestly, I loved and hated the E-bolt. I wasn't able to get the official Tippmann model and, I got the psychoballistics model. The included piston wasn't really built well, and was a bit of a challenge until the piston (the tail end of the shaft where the o-rings inteface with the cylinder). It was also only really a partial solution. There's no reason why an E-bolt should have a main valve with blowback. The piston (hammer end) was non-sealing so, a bit of air is wasted on every shot. I had it running at around 300PSI (after modding the valve) and I loved the reaction I would get from the other walk-ons. In the end though, I loved the response trigger more- it just works and, tuned properly is effectively full auto (for fields where that is appropriate).

[FlightMedic938]

uv_halo I understand the confusion now. The CP part you are seeing is not a reg. It’s a hollow extender that CP made so you could add a gauge if you wanted. It’s like the old Lapco dual air source adapter.

The CP gauge adapter is attached to a DYE gas thru grip on the bottom and a Shocktech mini cocker VASA on top. All of its hollow.

[uv_halo]

I get it now. That would explain things. What are you using for a reg then?

[FlightMedic938]

uv_halo Just the Powerhouse Hook tank reg @ 400 psi

[Morgenstern]

I might be missing something but I'd consider swapping the factory bolt back in. That o-ring placement isn't inspiring confidence. The factory one was perfection.

[FlightMedic938]

I was milling out a valve last night for another 98C and had a light bulb moment to compare it to the Warrior valve. It was a BT4 valve so l still need to compare it to a stock 98C but the channels on the Warrior were slightly wider and had a slightly larger valve stem channel (the hole, not the actual valve stem). If I had to guess I’d say it was 1mm for both. It looks like Warrior snuck in “mid pressure valve” improvements (wider channels, wider valve stem channel ID, and longer valve stem with a harder cup seal)

I also noticed that I have the most success milling only 2 of the 3 valve channels (screw side) and giving those cone shape edges on both ends of the channel. Only 2mm for the entrance/exit and the channel itself. That creates a funnel effect and pulls the air in and allows it to exit faster. I also slightly enlarge the bore of the valve stem channel on the valve face end (the side the hammer hits). I only enlarge 40-50% (depth) of the hole 1mm. Same concept here, allows the air to exit faster, but it doesn’t compromise stem guidance.

I leave the inferior lateral channel unchanged. If you look at the valve in relation to the stock velocity adujster (choke) you’ll notice that it primarily influences that channel. It’s a pretty crude method to be honest because it does effect all 3 channels when the air is dumped out of the valve channels in to the power tube, but, it does effect the bottom right channel the most. I screw in the stock adjuster until I can see 2-3 threads (roughly flush with the powertube itself, not the body)

What happens is the air from that channel hits the obstruction (velocity screw) and when the pressure gradient changes it flows backwards and out the valve stem channel to recock the hammer. This is needed to ensure consistent recocking of the hammer. If I milled this channel the increased air supply would just overpower the velocity screw.

What I may try next is enlarging all channels 2-3mm. Then put a flow control in the stock velocity adjuster hole and have a small external hose hooked up to a banjo that’s been drilled and tapped to go back in the valve near the end where the valve stem and cup seal are located. Basically a “RT” port location but on the logo side of the clamshell. I’m not sure it’ll work but it’ll be fun to try it out.

[Trbo323]

.

What I may try next is enlarging all channels 2-3mm. Then put a flow control in the stock velocity adjuster hole and have a small external hose hooked up to a banjo that's been drilled and tapped to go back in the valve near the end where the valve stem and cup seal are located. Basically a “RT” port location but on the logo side of the clamshell. I'm not sure it'll work but it'll be fun to try it out.

You may need some kind of check valve to do that. Since the air would hit the rear fitting first you may actually flow air forward and out the velocity adjustment hole

These are hand adjustable and can be used in place of the RT adjuster.

https://www.clippard.com/part/MFC-3BK1

The thing you have to keep in mind with them is they are an open flow in one direction all the time. In the photo if you flow into the female port and out the threaded male side on "bottom" it's always open. The adjuster screw only effects air going the other direction coming out of the female port.

So in your case if you put it on the back of the marker you could close it off completely which would only allow air to come back towards the hammer from the VA area and not the other way around.

If you had one on both ends it would get pretty interesting as the one in back closed off would be a check valve only allowing air to come backwards and the one in front would be controlling how much air goes that way

Sent from my motorola edge 2024 using Tapatalk

[FlightMedic938]

Thanks! 👍 Definitely something I’ll look into sometime in the future. I’m feeling burned out working on markers and really just want to start playing again. I knew if I didn’t get that valve done last night it would be a long time before it did.

I built 2 98s, A5, Raider, and a Crossover. Now that my OCD fixation is over and the dust is settling I’m wondering why the hell I have 5 paintball guns now.

[Trbo323]

Thanks! 👍 Definitely something I'll look into sometime in the future. I'm feeling burned out working on markers and really just want to start playing again. I knew if I didn't get that valve done last night it would be a long time before it did.

I built 2 98s, A5, Raider, and a Crossover. Now that my OCD fixation is over and the dust is settling I'm wondering why the hell I have 5 paintball guns now.

*Shutters* the crossover

I owned one for a hot minute. I already owned a automag and I had dreams that the crossover would be my poor man's e-mag since the valve in the crossover is based off the agd spool and it has a lot of the same characteristics

But boy was I wrong, that thing was nightmare inducing with how they designed it. Even with the manual it took me about an hour and a half to decipher the instructions on how to program the stupid thing.

Sold it after I took it to the field one time and knew I wouldn't be interested in bringing it out again

Sent from my motorola edge 2024 using Tapatalk

[blueBaller]

Ah, so that makes sense about the X7 and the Phenom. The Phenom operates on 300 psi NOT the X7. Good to know.

So this is the stem I’m talking about. TA10052. So now I’m thinking that the Warrior valve I put in is a 2” valve right? And it came with the TA10052? The stem is noticeably longer than my stock stem.

So the 2” valves offer better velocity according to Tippmann, if I’m processing this correctly.

//
Didn't think this forum would see so much heat on a Sunday night, lol. But FWIW, this is how I'm processing this, too.....

[FlightMedic938]

Trbo323 I picked up my Crossover XVR years ago and it was in pretty bad shape and was before I decided to tech my markers myself. I leaked from the trigger and I sent it in to my local shop. They fixed it but for some reason they way over tightened the trigger adjustment screw. A couple months ago I decided to go through it and inspect everything and when I took that screw out of the trigger the adjustment arm literally fell apart. The tension from the screw was holding it together I guess. Shitty thing is, the adjustment arm can’t be found anywhere. It’s just gone. So now I can only shoot mech mode.

It sat for awhile before I decided to make lemonade out of lemons and see if I can improve it to be a better shooting mech and I was surprised on how many little things could be done to make it great.

1. The front grip is actually connected to the air channel. I couldn’t find one of those aftermarket bottom line adapters and after watching a video of the install I was surprised that all you do is just take off the stock front grip and put on the little adapter. So I had an idea. I replaced the stock grip with a AGD foam gas thru with a CP gauge adapter. I was able to drop it to roughly 240-250psi from 280psi to get the same velocity.

2. The MRT bolt from TechT let me drop it more from 240 all the way down to 200psi. That was huge. I’m not sure why Tippmann put such a heavy front bolt on the Crossover. Another thing, the stock powertube looks shiny and polished but trust me, it needs a little polishing. The grooves that are on it for a wrench to be used to take it off had a couple of little burrs and rough edges. I did one pass with steel wool on the whole exterior of the powertube, one pass with a dry Mr. Clean magic eraser, then polished it with a small amount of Mothers aluminum polish. That dropped it down to around 180psi.

3. The “trigger pin” areas on the assembly, trigger itself, and the trigger lever had burrs. Like significant ones. On the assembly mainly. I polished those smooth and put a decent amount of grease in the trigger lever cavity and man it smoothed the trigger out. There is also a pre travel magnetic adjustment screw on the trigger that Tippmann says to “don’t touch” lol. That’s because the electronic and mechanical modes have different points of engagement that have to be sweet spotted for proper timing using that screw. If you aren’t using electronic though, like me, you can go ham on that screw. I adjusted that thing so the trigger pull is only like 3 maybe 4mm. The trick is to adjust it to the point that you can’t pull the trigger in electronic mode. It’s literally locked. When you switch to mech mode you’ll be able to pull the trigger and it’s a really nice pull.

I also pulled out all the electronics which are sitting, sadly, in a tiny zip lock bag. I noticed that, in mech mode, there just isn’t that strong of a return to able to walk it. With all the tronics out I put another stock magnet just underneath and to the left of the stock magnet located in the trigger frame. That magnet in the trigger frame actual pulls the trigger lever back and helps with trigger return. Putting in that additional magnet really helped the return and made it walkable

Now what I’m looking at is the spool spring. So when I pulled my trigger pin out (the one that sits in the valve core cavity) it was slightly bent…… this is what was causing my leak before and has already been replaced once….. I got 2 more trigger pins on the way but I’m really thinking that spool spring is too stiff for that tiny pin and that’s the real problem.

.