Tippmann Pro Lite Questions

[FlightMedic938]

I just bought this off EBay because I’ve never owned a Pro Lite. I was waiting for a mini lite to pop up but this one looks different. It doesn’t have that little “valve window” cut out on the body. Serial number is 2366 so it looks like it’s an early version maybe? I’m unfamiliar with the barrels. Is that super long one even threaded for Pro Lite?

[Kit352]

Long one looks like it's been on the prolite due to the shroud marks on it.
The prolite uses a5 threading so they all fit technically but some go too far into the breach and the bolt can get stuck. That long one may be one of those barrels, the threading looks deep.
I cant comment on the window thing. Mine has one. I want to say mine is numbered in the 9000s.
Plan on a new detent at the very least.
Be sure to cock it before you air it up. It's a thing.
My breach is seriously worn from what I can only assume was years of rental abuse. Still fires fine.

[Chappy]

The shorter barrel is the Tippmann Sniper Barrel. I'm pretty sure the other will fit it will just take longer to thread.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a Prolite without the window, but they might not have added that unlit they started making minilights.
Looks pretty clean.I think it is possible for the early prolites to have the proam valve and powertube, which were slightly different lengths. I seem to remember some early ones came with it, but were also swapped out by tippmann if you sent it in. I could be misremembering tho.

[FlightMedic938]

Thanks! Now when I hit the field I can say I’m playing Sniper? It’s gonna be funny shooting midget paint through what is probably like a .695 barrel. Any idea on the really small barrel? I was looking at stock pro lite barrels and they don’t seem to have porting like that at the end.

[Kit352]

My stock prolite barrel has the middle porting like your sniper and is about 6inches shorter. That stubby one doesn't look like it will even clear the shroud. It might be some two piece barrel missing a part. I do think it's probably the stock barrel that's been cut down most likely. The polished lip is a giveaway.

[Chappy]

Ya I’d agree it’s an older stock cut down. Hard tot elk for sure tho

[FlightMedic938]

I’ve been doing lots of research on the Pro-Lite. Combing through all the old posts everywhere I can find some info. The general consensus is that these are very hit or miss on HPA. My highest output tank reg is 650psi so it looks like I’ll have some work to do. Since this is such a low serial number I’m not going to modify any of the stock pieces, instead I’ll mess with spare parts and keep the original parts secured away.

I’m thinking. The exhaust poppet strikes the poppet rod in the powertube so if I drill and tap a small set screw where the poppet engages the rod I can control mechanical dwell. Just like the TA10052 valve stem in CVX valves, small adjustments cause big changes so I’m thinking .5mm max will get me there. This will allow the valve to open sooner and stay open longer. Lighter valve spring, stronger main spring, RVA, polished hammer and powertube, and all the other simple stuff too.

Im also thinking of trying to drop in a pro carbine power tube. It’s flat with a solid center in the middle of the air ports for the poppet to strike. It’s a pretty soft aluminum though and I think I would need to place a small compressible bumper for the poppet to strike. This would also allow the same thing as the set screw but I’d lose the adjustment. I could though place a bumper on the end of the valve face if it’s shooting too hot. This would also quiet it down some, no? Since the valve body would be striking a bumper and not whatever metal it’s slamming in to (valve stop found on the bottom near the velocity adjuster?). I know the Pro Carb powertube is longer but that’s an easy fix. The valve stop I was thinking of replacing with a high quality shock absorber. On one of my 98s I had filled the area I gutted for a street tee with cut shock absorbers for skateboards. I found a brand called Khiro which worked great. Anybody ever do anything like this that they can remember?

[FlightMedic938]

Updates after testing and working on this marker for a long time now-

Putting an adjustment screw in the striker bar is a bad idea. If you port the valve stem bases and switch the macroline out for steel braided it’ll be way more than enough velocity.

A Pro Carbine powertube is not needed. Neither is a compressible valve stop unless you lost the stock one and need something to act as a valve stop.

[FlightMedic938]

I’m already going to replace the trigger frame with the 45 Pepperball one I got and put a small volumizer going in to the valve fitting like I did on my Pro Carbine. I could be wrong but it looks like the valve only travels 3-4mm before engaging the poppet rod in the powertube. Was there ever any aftermarket valve for this, like a lighter aluminum? Or even a brass one that had a better friction coefficient?

[Chappy]

You really should just get a higher pressure regulator. I typically run my pro carb at 1100 psi. It is quiet, smooth, and almost never breaks paint. The problems of high pressure blowbacks are mostly bs.

[FlightMedic938]

I get it. That would be the simplest and probably the most correct approach but I really enjoy modifying paintball markers. Probably goes all the way back to when I used to build nitrous systems for racers. That “lightbulb” moment and then putting it all together is almost as fun for me as actually playing paintball.

[Chappy]

I totally get that and 1000% support the tinkerism lol. I’m just saying that when you are set up running 280 at 650 psi, you will alimost surely be able to increase fos with higher pressure then allowing for even lighter mainspring and hammer to come back down, which I find to be a big plus. Smooth and less trigger weight. But again, rock on, whatever works for you. I love seeing live for these guns. I’m one of the weirdos that is still rocking a procarb as a primary and a springfed prolite as my limited paint setup.

[FlightMedic938]

Edit***** The stock hammer is perfect and the valve stop is necessary.

So I’ve been messing with it. This valve holds way too much volume to have people struggling to get to velocity on HPA. What I think is going on is a couple of things. I’m not bashing it because I’m sure it works perfect with CO2 and the standard 800-850psi every blowback operated at back then. I’m saying from a modernization standpoint.

1. The hammer is too light for this dual poppet design. It only weighs 100 grams. That’s lighter than the 98 Custom low pressure kit hammer and almost as light as the A5 low pressure kit hammer. The Pro Carbine hammer weighs 124g and travels a longer distance which allows it to gain more momentum before striking the poppet.

2. The hammer is too long and not geometrically conducive to get that valve open enough to flow the air it should.

3. The valve stem base is too large. The air has to go in between the small opening in between the guide fins. The base doesn’t need all these fins to maintain concentricity. I’ve already started filing away the 2 fins that I don’t think need to be there.

4. The valve stop serves no purpose only to limit the amount of air that escapes the valve. I mean, the kinetic energy, valve spring, and pressure from the air escaping the blowback port should be more than enough to push the valve back to rest, no? The fitting keeps the valve from going back too far. The powertube keeps it from going too far forward. So why the valve stop? Have any of you shot without a valve stop?

So I’m thinking I’m going to use a Pro Carbine hammer. It goes in fine and has no problem dry firing. The problem was it was barely too short to engage the poppet. So in the valve the exhaust stem pin is longer than the blowback pin. I swapped the pins around. Now the pro carbine hammer smacks the pin pretty good. The linkage arm recess on the hammer is a little off when connected which is preventing sear engagement but that should be a simple fix. The exhaust pin is a little too short now, obviously lol, but I ordered another pin online and I’ll get that swapped out to a longer pin. If that fails I’ll put a set screw in the powertube poppet bar to adjust the dwell so it opens good to get the air flowing.

Also the valve seat is too thick. A valve seat from a 98 Custom drops right in with a size 12 o ring on the back. It’s half the thickness of the Pro Lite valve seat. This allows the exhaust valve stem to extend further from the opening, strike the powertube earlier, and keep the valve open longer.

It’s going to be some trial and error and hopefully my theories pan out but so far it’s been fun working on this one. I’ll definitely keep this thread updated with progress. So far cleaned everything up, did some polishing, and I put on the pepper ball 45 frame, pepperball foregrip/sling, and worked on the valve a little.

[C26G]

Hey man did you experiment with these mods? I'm intrigued by all of this. Have you tried the Pro Carbine Hammer in a Pro Lite? I'm trying to source one to try out

[FlightMedic938]

C26G I switched gears and started a 68 Carbine project so most of the Pro Lite ended up being used in the 68. Turns out though that the Pro Lite hammer is pretty good. It’s easier to get the Pro Lite hammer to work in a 68 or Pro Carbine than getting a 68 or Pro Carbine hammer to work in a Pro Lite.

I tried briefly but couldn’t nail down the compression envelope, kept coming up short. I imagine it can be done though. I decided to make both the 68 and Pro Carbine low pressure so the lighter Pro Lite hammer ended up being what I needed.

I did get to shoot the 68 today though. It worked briefly but the reg seat crapped out. I got a new one coming from Immortal Air. It was shooting in the 290-300fps range at around 350psi

[FlightMedic938]

[Kit352]

For what it's worth my best ass old rental prolite hits 250fps on 850psi hpa. I'm pretty sure I need new springs so I think I can get 280 out of it.
It's all stock but resealed.

[FlightMedic938]

That’s good to hear. I think I’m going to run the stock hammer after all. I don’t really like the idea of taking a major part from a different market and putting it in another. Little stuff like springs is ok but not a hammer. I’m just gonna open in up so it can breath better and see what I get

[Kit352]

Don't forget a good bore match can go a long way. Those old barrels are massive and lose a lot of fps. Could save you a bunch of work just getting a freak bore barrel.

[Cross-Country]

What would be a good bore for field paint? Is it OK to go all the way down to .680 with that stuff, or is it better to stick somewhere around .685? All the fields around me are, unfortunately, FPO.

[FlightMedic938]

You don’t want to go below .685 for a single bore. Honestly, I wouldn’t go below .687 on a single bore. Most Tippmanns the front bolt goes in to the barrel a good bit so decreasing bore size can cause bolt stick/drag or even the bolt getting lodged in the barrel.

If you are using a barrel kit the insert needs to be inserted from the front. Not the breech side. You should check bolt clearance before trying to go below .687 so you don’t get your bolt stuck in the barrel.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Try one of these bad boys it puts out like 1200psi if it’s to high you can just remove or flip a shim on the stack they are like a knock of OG pure energy reg. I use to use them on my Hammer 7 builds to get those pigs to shoot on HPA.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20453861907...3ABFBMxoSf7NNm

[FlightMedic938]

Christmas came early and I got a new rotary tool with all kinds of extras. I’m going to mill some channels on the valve stem bases and taper the stems Spyder style. This thing is about to be flowing like Mount Vesuvius!

[Cal440]

Could you show some pictures of your work? Looking forward to your see your results.

[FlightMedic938]

Cal440 Of course! I’ll take a bunch when I get it all done and dialed in. I got a 98C/A5 main drive spring to work today. It was tricky pinning down the spring compression envelope even though the Pro Carbine uses the same body as the Pro Lite but uses the same spring as the 98C/A5

The spring cavity on both the hammer and end cap were too long for a shorter spring. That and the end cap itself is longer on the Pro Lite. The big one though that took me a minute to figure out is that the guide pin has a slightly thicker base than the 98C/A5

So what I did was pretty simple. I dropped a size 4 TechT trigger pin in the hammer cavity and a small ball bearing in the end cap. Then I used the end cap and guide pin from a Pro Carbine. Now I can use 98C/A5 main springs. I ended up having to use a pretty strong one though to get the same action as the stock spring. I think it was either the strongest Madman or TechT I had. Good thing though, if I’m shooting hot, I can just keep dropping spring strengths until I find the right one. I don’t think I’ll shoot hot at 650psi but I won’t know until it’s all together and shooting.

[FlightMedic938]

I did some trigger work today. I’m using a Pro Carbine sear. It was in a lot better shape than the Pro Lite sear and it feels like it may be lighter but I haven’t weighed it.

Since the hammer is pretty light at 100g I decided to change the sear spring to a M98 sear spring. I also swapped out the trigger spring to a M98 trigger spring. I don’t have another Madman sear spring or I would’ve used that. It cocks and fires with no air fine. I don’t think the sear spring will get overwhelmed. When cocked I can put a bunch of weight on the knob and the sear holds strong. It’s much smoother and easier to cock back now which could help in any recock problems I may or may not experience.

I ended up using the Pro Lite trigger. The trigger stop pin hole is much larger. I ended up dropping a TechT size 3 trigger pin in with no modifications to the sear or sear landing on the trigger. By comparison, I could only get a size 1 to work in the Pro Carbine and that required a small amount of filing on the sear and sear landing.

There is still a little travel in the trigger that I might be able to take out. The size 4 TechT pin was barely too big and prevented sear disengagement. I can file the sear and landing a small amount and get it to work. I also ended up using the Pro Lite sear pin because it was thicker than the Pro Carbine. The Pepperball safety has different geometry than both the Carbine and Lite. It’s not interfering with trigger pull at all so the trigger can do its job and get the sear disengaged. It’s also black anodized aluminum with 2 o rings which looks pretty cool.

I’m thinking though. The Pro Lite trigger stop pin hole on the trigger is almost big enough for a small TechT Fang trigger bearing. I’m sure I could drill it out a little to get the bearing in and use a smaller pin. Most of the movement in the trigger is on the front pin though, right? Anybody know if a bearing in the trigger could help the feel of it?

[FlightMedic938]

I was incorrect on the Pro Lite trigger. I thought I had the size 3 pin in but it was actually the size 0, the size 3 does not work. Big brain fart. Regardless, I still think I can get a bearing in the Pro Lite trigger pretty easy but this marker is very low serial number and all the stock parts I’m not using are going to remain unmodified and stored safely. So the Pro Carbine trigger it is. With M98 sear and trigger springs.

Im also going to use the Pro Carbine sear. It has less contact with the hammer and smooths the pull out a little. I’m posting up some pics of what I’m talking about with the main spring and end cap as well.

You can notice in the picture of the end caps that the Pro Lite is larger. It threads in completely but if I tried to use a 98C/A5 main spring it was not working correctly. The spring cavity in the Pro Lite end cap is too deep for the shorter 98C/A5 main spring. The Pro Carbine end cap is more shallow and works great.

In the spring picture you’ll see a TechT stainless steel heavy spring (which is shorter than stock and most aftermarket 98C/A5 springs) with a pin on the end. The pin is a TechT trigger pin for the 98C/A5. The problem with the Pro Lite hammer, just like the end cap, is that the spring cavity in the hammer was too long for a shorter spring. The trigger pin (circled in white) secured firmly inside the spring because the pin is thinner on the ends and fat in the middle. This acts as a mini guide. The spring is then slide into the hammer, pin down. The pin acts as a spring extender. The hammer makes full and forceful contact with the valve face and there are no complications with sear engagement or trigger pull. I have noticed that cocking the hammer back is much smoother using a 98C/A5 spring but my Pro Lite spring was pretty much busted so that was what I was comparing it to.

The Pro Lite spring guide is thicker at the base and too long for a 98C/A5 spring. It prevents sear engagement completely. I circled the base of the Pro Carbine spring guide in red. It’s shorter and the base is thinner. I did put a small ball bearing in the Pro Carbine end cap to increase preload on the spring but it’s not necessary unless you want a heavier strike on the valve. I want to use the sling I have on it and unfortunately the Pro Carbine RVA lacks a sling mount. So if you have a Pro Carbine RVA it’ll probably work just fine although I haven’t tested that.

So for a 98C/A5 and Pro Carbine main spring to work correctly, in a Pro Lite, a spring extender (TechT pin or something else you think will work), Pro Carbine end cap, Pro Carbine spring guide, and the spring will be needed. Alternatively, you could come up with an even longer spring extender and still use the Pro Lite end cap. It’ll just need to secure inside the spring, be one piece, and not allow the spring to slip over it. The spring guide, though, has to be shorter and thinner at the base. Probably even shorter than a Pro Carbine spring guide if the spring extender is lengthened.

Later today I’m going to try a thinner end cap O ring on the Pro Carbine end cap to see if I can shore it up a little more.