Playing again after 8 years -> is development done?

[Maxwell]

I can think of things that could get better. While having a paintball gun that can create its own compressed air and paintballs and shoot them in a Phantom sized package is unlikely it would be really nice and save me a ton of money. Thinking along those lines though, what if markers could get hyper efficient to the point where we can store air similar to 12 grams in the foregrip and shoot a case of paint off of them? We'd look back at the days of hauling an 88ci tank instead of our T stocks and laugh.

Edit because I thought of something else: Solar power anyone?! What the heck are we still using batteries for?

[gabe]

The biggest improvement in paintball IMO would be not a technology thing but a drastic shift in the market. It would be great to see a return to a cottage industry with many small shops all competing to innovate and make things better. The problem is that you've basically just got KEE, HK, PE, and maybe 2-3 other big brands that dominate the industry and there's no room for smaller companies working at lower margins. These big companies are slowing innovation and stifling quality in a race for the lowest manufacturing cost/highest profit margin. They are run by investment companies that don't care what the investment vehicle is as long as they turn ever increasing profits. This is why paint sucks is because you don't have RPS (a paintball company) making paint, you have Empire (a profit center for hedge funds) making tiny paint with fragile shells because it's cheaper that way.

Modern market forces are fuk. I desire a return to the 90's/2000's small brand marketplace.

[cockerpunk]

you need a growing sport and more opportunity for that. we dont have a growing sport.

[RPP]

You are back cockerpunk.

[gabe]

We don't have a growing *economy* in general. There you go fixed it.

[FlightMedic938]

I think the game itself needs a massive overhaul to reflect the 2020s. Paintball is still stuck in the 90s/00s with speedball and woodsball is stuck in the 80s/90s. Neither style is sustaining or growing the game. I’m happy with woodsball the way it is but also realize that unless it’s changed to rope in newer and/or future generations there won’t be much of a game to play and it’ll be considered a fad in the near future.

How we do this is by incorporating tech. Lots and lots of tech. Smart watch apps that show where teammates are, and where opponents are, if they’ve been spotted. HUD masks. Drones that can be operated by a sidelined player or a coach that can coach, perform recon, or even ref. Also recording gameplay needs to be prioritized. These generations need to post stuff on TikTok and stuff. Masks need to have cameras built in to record gameplay. You could also do this with drones.

Ideally the watch, mask, and drone need to be a package deal under 1k. That’s how you get new players quickly and grow fast.

I would even go as far to say to present it as a whole new game to investors and distance itself from the name “paintball”. Get back to NSG or something similar. If paintball doesn’t do it soon, Airsoft will, and then paintball will decline even further and end up like archery or fencing and never be mainstream again.

[iamthelazerviking]

Agree with ECAP big time

[Chuck E Ducky]

As long as they make paintballs they couldn’t kill paintball for me if they tried. I disagree tec is the answer to why an expensive hobby is not Growing right now. I don’t care if it ever becomes mainstream, on TV, In the X games. I don’t care if the major companies and Paintball go out of business. I don’t care about the latest electro, The latest Hopper with Bluetooth connectivity that tells me when to reload. I just want a better Paintball is that too much to ask for.

[RPP]

That's gonna be a no from me dawg.

[The Hobbit]

so answer my question ... what problem is it solving? what problem is around the corner?

we already had the shoebox compressor, i still have one lol

I think the innovation we are seeing is less about solving problems and more about creating diversity of design. Maybe a renaissance of the early 00s where each company unique (if not still similar) designs and worked on developing them.

I’ve seen few people that don’t comment on the lack of design diversity and rehashing of the gamma core. Honestly that there are still talented and intelligent people willing to work towards novel designs, simply for their novelty is a good thing.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Diversity of design? The top players in the game are all using the same engine with just enough tweaks to bypass copyright infringements, sold to buyers as the difference that makes there product better then the next. All while Making claims that are impossible to replicate in real world play due to an imperfect projectile.

🤷🏻♂️ I’m not impressed are you?

Has anything come out in the last 10 years really been all that innovative?

First strike round maybe. Mini Gravity fed hopers that feed good. I see more innovation from MCB members then I do from industry leaders in the game.

[The Hobbit]

Diversity of design? The top players in the game are all using the same engine with just enough tweaks to bypass copyright infringements, sold to buyers as the difference that makes there product better then the next. All while Making claims that are impossible to replicate in real world play due to an imperfect projectile.

🤷🏻♂️ I’m not impressed are you?

Has anything come out in the last 10 years really been all that innovative?

First strike round maybe. Mini Gravity fed hopers that feed good. I see more innovation from MCB members then I do from industry leaders in the game.

Maybe I wasn’t clear, John/Method development has stated that one of his goals is to work with these companies to replace gamma clones with proprietary designs. Now all these companies working with the same guy limits diversity of ideas somewhat but it’s not like theses been much to be strangled out.

mehh, I won’t be buying anything newer then what I have anytime soon.

[Trbo323]

Ideally the watch, mask, and drone need to be a package deal under 1k. That's how you get new players quickly and grow fast.

.

That's basically been tried and it failed hard. Empire evs mask with the HUD, it retailed for somewhere around $700 all told and could track your position and your teammates who also of course had the same $700 mask.

Shocking to no one, even if you can buy the $700 mask, convincing your teammates to also buy the same mask just so yours could work was another matter entirely.

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[BrickHaus]

That's basically been tried and it failed hard. Empire evs mask with the HUD, it retailed for somewhere around $700 all told and could track your position and your teammates who also of course had the same $700 mask.

Shocking to no one, even if you can buy the $700 mask, convincing your teammates to also buy the same mask just so yours could work was another matter entirely.

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That hud was never actually available if I recall. I was on a 30 guy team at the time, and we would have likely bought it. We honestly waited for it to never come out. I even had an evs so ai could just buy the hud.

[Trbo323]

That hud was never actually available if I recall. I was on a 30 guy team at the time, and we would have likely bought it. We honestly waited for it to never come out. I even had an evs so ai could just buy the hud.

I remember seeing a price tag on it but admittedly I don't recall if it was a "preorder" item or not.

And yes I'm sure there are some teams/players with high budgets that would purchase it. However the average player or the new player? No way

One of the things that's stagnating the sport is high entry costs, to get a emek and a halfway decent mask/tank/hopper and field fee/paint you are looking at $700 before you ever pull the trigger. That's already a problem, there's no way that player is adding 600 to that to get a mask with a HUD or 900 for some watch/drone/AI gizmo

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[tyronejk]

I wouldn't say the Gamma core is at the peak of technology but would agree that it's close. My only small complaint is that it has a lot of orings and individual failures are hard to diagnose. E.g. one oring failing causes the gun to shoot full-auto, a different oring failing causes partial bolt cycling, etc.

This is in contrast to Geos, Ions, stacked tube poppets, etc. where there are many fewer orings and generally just leaks at rest if a seal fails.

[river031403]

Went out and played for the first time in 8 years last weekend. had a blast. indoor airball, gun owners night, 5.5bps or mech. had to buy a new tank (my 45/45 was made in 2005!) and mask. new tank, was way lighter, and a 68 instead of 45. so who cares about efficiency?

and guys, i gotta say, i think its done.

like, the Emek, these new tanks ... like the arms race is over. broken paint, a thing of the past. unreliability? lol. barrels? accuracy? all in the paint.

like i think we found the end of this development cycle. what more do you want than an Emek, a revvy, and a modern 68/45? masks, solved that problem years ago, barrels? take your pick ... like what else is there?





i'd posit i think the tech tree for paintball is basically done.

Just go play!!I returned after 10 years things haven’t changed much…since 2015 the guns still shoot paint out of a barrel of a marker that uses hpa..I started playing in ‘91 took a break then started up briefly again in 2010-2015 and back at it again

[Cunha]

Lots of new trinkets come out. Since BPS is low the biggest "tech" change has been moving hoppers further forward of the trigger frame to make recoil feel reduced because of all the mass out forward holding vertical movement down.

There's room for lighter low BPS hoppers like an empire z2 with a small feed plate since the big one was designee to queue up a lot of balls for high BPS

The virtue hoppers wouldn't hold up in high bps play because they are slow. Same with a pinokio. Today they are kinda the best because of size and weight.

Its been like this since bps went to 12.5 and the gtek and etek 5 was released. Those two guns are still current and its been many years.

People don't even know about paintball. There were half a dozen print paintball magazines available at major national bookstores like borders (rip) and Barnes and noble in the 2000s. There's very little normal people exposure to paintball now.

[gabe]

I wouldn't say the Gamma core is at the peak of technology but would agree that it's close. My only small complaint is that it has a lot of orings and individual failures are hard to diagnose. E.g. one oring failing causes the gun to shoot full-auto, a different oring failing causes partial bolt cycling, etc.

This is in contrast to Geos, Ions, stacked tube poppets, etc. where there are many fewer orings and generally just leaks at rest if a seal fails.

Sounds like an automag 🌚

Tbf that could describe almost any "spool" type gun. The gamma is about as good as it gets for a self-timing air efficient size efficient setup. It might not be the peak but I doubt we will see the next peak for years maybe decades to come.

People are still looking for the next massive leap forward but as I've said before, it's small nuanced changes that add up over time. Probably mainly in ergonomics would be a huge focus. That's what we're in for as far as "development".

[tyronejk]

I gave contrasting examples of spool valve guns with fewer orings and easier diagnosis. To clarify my point: the Gamma core has 10 dynamic seals and 6 static seals. The geo has 4 dynamic seals and 3 static seals.

When working properly, the Gamma core is more reliable, more efficient, quicker responding. But, when/if a dynamic oring fails, a faulty seal will definitely be easier to pinpoint in the geo.

[Trbo323]

Self indexing FSR box loader

There's been talk already

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[Chuck E Ducky]

That would be cool for the few fields that allow them in the few markers that will shoot them, for the few people who can afford to use them.

[gabe]

Exactly. FSR is basically on life support. There's so few woods fields, few scenario events, and otherwise no use for them remaining.

[gabe]

This may be a hot take but bear with me: do we actually need/want more progress or development in paintball? It occurred to me watching the autococker groups, pump groups etc that most paintballers now are old school ballers that are returning to the sport for the nostalgia of it. I know I for one mainly play nowadays to scratch the itch of reliving the fun of my youth and even being able to own the guns I couldn't when I was a kid.

Seems like when I go to the field it's largely old heads as well with a very few younger players tossed in. The newer players come and go but the anchor of the industry seems to be guys in their 30/40s that grew up playing in the golden years of paintball. They only buy the newer guns for the times they get tired of teching old 'cockers or angels.

So is the industry really driven by innovation now or are we just coming out with new JT goggles and mechs for us old guys?