The Slow And Unfortunate Death Spiral Of Stock-Class Paintball

[Slim]

BLachance75
Chuck E Ducky
Riot
$L!mBo
Chaos


I had a long conversation with Aric today. He confirmed that attendance at his recent 10-man event was down around 30%, which tracks with what we are seeing. He reiterated that his overall attendance has been down over the past couple of years, and attributes this to the economy which is forcing people to prioritize what they spend their money on.

We discussed a wide variety of solutions, including what has been suggested in this thread. I suggested the possibility of creating a referral program where "regulars" can play for free if they bring along two or more friends/players who have never attended one of my events - something Aric is open to. We discussed the possibility of scaling the events back to Sunday only, but keeping the Saturday night campout. We discussed keeping it a two-day event but using non-SC formats on Saturday (open-class/modified SC, etc.) and SC only on Sunday. We discussed the hurdles involved in running mixed format events, as well as the challenges of moving the event to a different venue. We discussed the challenges of converting mainstream players over to ANY kind of limited paint type format - open or stock-class, as well as the ammout of effort that would require. Trust me when I say we covered a lot in this conversation.

I want everyone to know that I am open to considering any solution that effectively preserves the original spirit of the game AND that isn't going to make my job as an organizer more difficult. Any reluctance I have to incorporating formats outside of stock-class in my events comes from my experience organizing non-SC events in the mid-1990s, as well as my experience working as a Field Manager at two different paintball fields. When high ROF/high capacity markers are used by those with a "do anything to win" mentality it can ruin the day for a lot of people. I can assure you it always ruined my day. The multiple headaches that I had to deal with are the reason why I opted to only organize SC events in the first place.

Is it possible to preserve the original spirit of the game using markers outside of the stock-class format? Of course it's possible. People run pump events all the time without incident. While I'm not worried about the existing group of regulars who understand the distinction between the SC and mainstream mindsets, I do have concerns about those who we are trying to convert. Converting a player who possesses a toxic "do anything to win" mindset over to a play-for-fun, rec ball mindset doesn't always go well. Aric seems to think that if I enforce the same strict policies on behavior that I have at my SC events then this might mitigate poor behavior from any potential converts at a mixed format event. I'm quite sure that if I hadn't had so many negative experiences in the past, I wouldn't have these reservations now.

Regardless, it looks like the 2027 season may see some big changes for my events. Hopefully I'll have some details worked out by Stoctoberfest and can share more with you then. Thanks again for your feedback.

.

[Painthappy]

Slim, you're events are stock class, made for stock class, and you should honestly keep it stock class.

Stock class will always appeal to us older guys (I can say that now right?) who grew up playing it. Maybe some of the younger generations that want a challenge, or tried it and caught the bug.

There is always room for something inbetween at other events. Gravity league was built on the idea of limited paint. B's games back in the day (If you don't know him, he was around on v1 of MCB and hosted some very fun games) was based on 12 grams only, but you had to have a stick feed (gravity fed was fine). That opened the door to folks that didn't have a stock class gun.

There is no perfect play. To the folks that want to do something, I say just pick a day, pick a style of play, and invite your friends and MCBers in the area. You'll be pleasantly surprised at how many show up.

Remember that old "build it and they will come"? So yeah, just invite folks to an event... and yes, they will come.

[Fubarius]

This discussion got me thinking about, well, difficulty. The appeal of an all stock class game is that the play is, to put it simply, not difficult (no insult of course, this is an exercise in abstractness). Less paint coming at you means more chances to try different tactics, different techniques, different positions, and if something goes wrong it's a single shot getting uncomfortably close, instead of 10 shots stitching you up the side. (this more forgiving play sounds very fun to me, sadly very few of these types of events happen near me)

But stock class gear in regular open play, well that's all about increasing difficulty. There's a deliberate firepower imbalance. You got a single shot while they get multiple. This can be useful if there is an actual skill imbalance (experienced players VS. renters for example) that needs to be counteracted, or if you want to speed up skill improvement. (this also sounds fun for me, I don't enjoy beating up on renters, and have multiple setups, some SC, for these types of days)

Do notice that the directions of difficulty are opposite of each other. This causes an issue.

It's kind of a chicken and the egg situation. To have a gear specific event you need people to already own that gear. And will people buy that gear specifically to attend that event?

I don't know many people who will spend money on a gun just for a few special events, especially ones they have to travel considerably far for. So you need people who want to buy that particular gun for use in other games as well. Those people are the ones who would by that gear to increase difficulty in play. But the event is all about reducing difficulty. You need people who can find enjoyment in both.

I had come up with sort of a meme idea. An image, labeled "Choose your difficulty" with a picture of someone's collection. The electro is labeled "Easy", the mech "Normal", the pump "Hard", and the stock class pump "Expert". But that only seems to apply to mixed open play. In a gear exclusive formant, where this dictates the incoming fire as well as outgoing, the spectrum is reversed.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Stock Class is more difficult to play. Learning to work within the limitations of the 12g is an Art. The people Playing these events are some of the most skilled pump players you will find. They limit themselves because it’s something new to master, and the game is more fun when you slow it down. It’s far from easy the only thing that changes is there less paint in the air. Stock Class just allows for more movement. Most of the time the battles come down to who makes a mistake first. Field advantage, knowing your opponent and playing them as a player of the game. Most players don’t have the luxury of playing that kind of paintball. But when you do attend these events and get to know them play them there is nothing like it. It’s just good paintball.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Personally I would like it to stay true Stock Class at all costs. There are only a few games a year we get to play true Stock Class outside private play. I would hate for my favorite Stock Class event to turn into just another pump day. Pump Paintball well that’s just about every time I play paintball. I shoot pump in rec, at big games, even my kids just getting into paintball shoot Pump.

However if you think it will encourage more new players to come out. Maybe allow HPA and Stick Feeds like SoCalStock. Keep the Don’t be a Dick rules. It’s your event and you can run it how you want.

I definitely prefer it stay true Stock Class and I will play that way regardless of rule changes. Maybe this Fall take a vote for the people who actually play your games see what they think. I don’t think allowing Stick fed / HPA is going to change game play all that much. I also don’t think you will pick up all that many players doing so.

Or are you talking about just going completely Open Class Pump like Hoppers HPA and AT? Because that to me is just another pump day we run one in the NE 2x a month.

There is one this Saturday at CCZ ,one Sunday at OSG and Hogans on the 29th.

I say, Keep it Stock Classy.

[Riot]

BLachance75
Chuck E Ducky
Riot
$L!mBo
Chaos


I had a long conversation with Aric today. He confirmed that attendance at his recent 10-man event was down around 30%, which tracks with what we are seeing. He reiterated that his overall attendance has been down over the past couple of years, and attributes this to the economy which is forcing people to prioritize what they spend their money on.

We discussed a wide variety of solutions, including what has been suggested in this thread. I suggested the possibility of creating a referral program where "regulars" can play for free if they bring along two or more friends/players who have never attended one of my events - something Aric is open to. We discussed the possibility of scaling the events back to Sunday only, but keeping the Saturday night campout. We discussed keeping it a two-day event but using non-SC formats on Saturday (open-class/modified SC, etc.) and SC only on Sunday. We discussed the hurdles involved in running mixed format events, as well as the challenges of moving the event to a different venue. We discussed the challenges of converting mainstream players over to ANY kind of limited paint type format - open or stock-class, as well as the ammout of effort that would require. Trust me when I say we covered a lot in this conversation.

I want everyone to know that I am open to considering any solution that effectively preserves the original spirit of the game AND that isn't going to make my job as an organizer more difficult. Any reluctance I have to incorporating formats outside of stock-class in my events comes from my experience organizing non-SC events in the mid-1990s, as well as my experience working as a Field Manager at two different paintball fields. When high ROF/high capacity markers are used by those with a "do anything to win" mentality it can ruin the day for a lot of people. I can assure you it always ruined my day. The multiple headaches that I had to deal with are the reason why I opted to only organize SC events in the first place.

Is it possible to preserve the original spirit of the game using markers outside of the stock-class format? Of course it's possible. People run pump events all the time without incident. While I'm not worried about the existing group of regulars who understand the distinction between the SC and mainstream mindsets, I do have concerns about those who we are trying to convert. Converting a player who possesses a toxic "do anything to win" mindset over to a play-for-fun, rec ball mindset doesn't always go well. Aric seems to think that if I enforce the same strict policies on behavior that I have at my SC events then this might mitigate poor behavior from any potential converts at a mixed format event. I'm quite sure that if I hadn't had so many negative experiences in the past, I wouldn't have these reservations now.

Regardless, it looks like the 2027 season may see some big changes for my events. Hopefully I'll have some details worked out by Stoctoberfest and can share more with you then. Thanks again for your feedback.

.

In regard to different formats; Personally, I would much prefer you drop down to a single Stock Class weekend, rather than a single day event (camping or not.) I would guess if there is only a single event, you’ll see more people. As mentioned, there’s a lot of reasons people don’t go to events (families, economy, other hobbies, etc), it’s a lot easier to skip a weekend, when there’s a back up a few months later.

I don’t think you’ll see a huge increase of players going one day open class because I don’t think there’s that many OC ONLY guys. I think it’s probably almost entirely overlap between the two formats but… I’d certainly be down!

I can’t really speak to the aggressive nature of speedball, but it certainly seems more friendly than it did back in the 2002 era. Furthermore, any potential recruits would be outnumbered by all of us regulars, unless they’re completely out of touch, I imagine their behavior would follow suit, or be corrected pretty quickly.

I’ll be there either way. Good luck!

[BLachance75]

Slim if you do decide to possibly do Saturday as an open pump or mod stock day I don’t think you need to worry about the people. We will self police the same as we always do. There has been very few people who have taken open pump days to far and a quick word with them almost always resolves any issues.

I personally don’t like the idea of going to a 1 day event. A lot of us love playing Saturday, hanging out Saturday night and playing again on Sunday. It makes the longer drive worth it for more people if there is 2 days of play.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Yeah I doubt you will have people still flying in for a 1day

I agree you would be better off doing one weekend over two one day events. Camping chilling after playing hangout is just as much fun as the games.