New First Strike Pistol - XP -CO2 separate now!

[SignOfZeta]

These are designed for less lethal in places that firearms are illegal. I took the class at PBE half a decade ago and they specifically mentioned that.

For places where firearms aren’t allowed or for people who aren’t allowed to carry firearms? And what would the difference be?

[cfos00]

They didn't specify that, but I would think both. They mentioned selling it in areas that don't allow for normal firearms as markets for home defense.

[Drcemento]

When I started trying to work on my FSC to make it better with paintballs, most of the youtube videos that came up revolved around modd'ing the FSC to shoot higher velocities for home defense. watching a solid 9gram riot ball punch a clean hole in 1/4" plywood at 40ft is a little terrifying. at the very least hitting someone center mass with a couple of those would hurt like hell. still, the logic and reality behind owing one for Home defense defies me. once that thing comes out, I think the chances of someone else mistaking that for the real deal ( including the cops)in the heat of the conflict makes your chances of actually getting shot far higher. anyone ever find actual cases where these were an effecitive deterent- most seem to involve pepper spray.

[SignOfZeta]

Yeah and that's great in theory. In reality a lot of these non-lethal options are launching stuff around the velocities that we use to play paintball. Hell there's some of these that shoot at slower velocity

So apparently on a paintball field the same velocity is contributing to a sport that statistically has one of the lowest rates of injury but in a house is supposed to stop an intruder.

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Have you ever been in an actual fight? This is a serious question.

If someone shot your teeth out with pepperballs you’re going to keep raping my wife and stealing my silver? This is total fiction. You crack me up sometimes. What a sad violence fantasy the Home Invasion Enthusiast lives in.

The home invasion is never coming. The thing will never be used. Some bastard nephew is going to steal it and shoot raccoons with it. This is reality. You’re never going to realize the dream of legally blowing a guys head of in your house. This *should* make you happy.

If you go the FBI’s website they have all sorts of raw data on crime you can process however you want. What you’ll find is that the fable of “home invaders” being stopped by a homeowner by a gun is literally a less common occurrence than lightning strikes or shark attacks. You’re better off spending your gun money on lottery tickets because lotto eventually pays out. It’s not happening. Your preparation is pointless. Intentionally or accidentally murdering family members both far outrank stopping mythical bad guys and most people killed by a gun committed suicide.

Suicide by gun is more popular than killing other people with a gun. But when people buy guys they are absolutely convinced of the opposite. It’s quite a delusion.

[uv_halo]

Where is there data about successful self-defense firearm events? As I understand it, the data is spotty at best and, all of it tends to ignore the simple defensive application of brandishing (showing and/or cocking a gun) which local news media outlets have shown to happen.

[SignOfZeta]

When I started trying to work on my FSC to make it better with paintballs, most of the youtube videos that came up revolved around modd'ing the FSC to shoot higher velocities for home defense. watching a solid 9gram riot ball punch a clean hole in 1/4" plywood at 40ft is a little terrifying. at the very least hitting someone center mass with a couple of those would hurt like hell. still, the logic and reality behind owing one for Home defense defies me. once that thing comes out, I think the chances of someone else mistaking that for the real deal ( including the cops)in the heat of the conflict makes your chances of actually getting shot far higher. anyone ever find actual cases where these were an effecitive deterent- most seem to involve pepper spray.

I agree. This is a great way to get actually shot. Home defense, milsim, all of it. Cops shoot first and ask questions later.

[TheHow7zer]

Lemme guess - whole new magazine design?

It's good to see more pistols on the market although I'd rather there were some options with ultra small hpa tanks and less of a milsim style.

Keep it on the down-low, but I am working on a paintball pistol that has it's inner workings based off a speedball gun. Unfortunately I can't make compact HPA tanks though!

[Trbo323]

Have you ever been in an actual fight? This is a serious question.

If someone shot your teeth out with pepperballs you're going to keep raping my wife and stealing my silver? This is total fiction. You crack me up sometimes. What a sad violence fantasy the Home Invasion Enthusiast lives in.

The home invasion is never coming. The thing will never be used. Some bastard nephew is going to steal it and shoot raccoons with it. This is reality. You're never going to realize the dream of legally blowing a guys head of in your house. This *should* make you happy.

If you go the FBI's website they have all sorts of raw data on crime you can process however you want. What you'll find is that the fable of “home invaders” being stopped by a homeowner by a gun is literally a less common occurrence than lightning strikes or shark attacks. You're better off spending your gun money on lottery tickets because lotto eventually pays out. It's not happening. Your preparation is pointless. Intentionally or accidentally murdering family members both far outrank stopping mythical bad guys and most people killed by a gun committed suicide.

Suicide by gun is more popular than killing other people with a gun. But when people buy guys they are absolutely convinced of the opposite. It's quite a delusion.

Oh I agree that the likelihood is very very small. I think it's just irresponsible if not unethical for these "home defense" companies to insist that these markers will stop intruders and bill them as "powerful" when the sport of paintball typically plays at higher velocities and is considered safe

As for your scenario above, no, you are not shooting my teeth out. Early paintball was played without face coverings, only eye and people were not losing teeth left and right. If you are using a solid ceramic/metal ball, maybe then my teeth are in danger but it's the same muzzle energy in both scenarios only the area of force impact is smaller for the solid round

Yes, a pepperball into my mouth will likely stop me. But let's say you don't have that kind of aim in the middle of a home invasion, you hit me center mass. Ok, best case here is I get hit with something traveling the same speed as a paintball and since pepperballs are around the same mass, same impact force (remember, this is best case scenario) and has way less "pepper spray" in it than even a half second squirt from a can of pepper spray.

ALL THAT assumes the marker that's been sitting in your drawer for years even functions as it should after having 0 maintenance.

I think we agree that it's a bad idea to buy/use these just for different reasons

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[XEMON]

Unfortunately I can't make compact HPA tanks though!

I am just gonna leave that here 😁

[Arthur]

Yo… what is this and how do I search for it (not finding it)

[XEMON]

they're called "Core Mini Tank" and are design to be tank regulator test fixture.

[TheHow7zer]

That's pretty cool, I wonder how many shots you could get off if you're regulating down to 150psi?

[XEMON]

No idea, i don't have one, but if/when i get a spare tank reg, ill probably get one to mess around with 😁

[Frmrspec]

Yes, a pepperball into my mouth will likely stop me. But let's say you don't have that kind of aim in the middle of a home invasion, you hit me center mass.

thing with pepper ball rounds is it’s better that they don’t hit you. Shoot the wall beside you or the roof above you so the powder disperses around you

Ok, best case here is I get hit with something traveling the same speed as a paintball and since pepperballs are around the same mass, same impact force (remember, this is best case scenario) and has way less "pepper spray" in it than even a half second squirt from a can of pepper spray.

Pepper balls are more effective than you would think. I used to service the pepper ball markers for the local sheriffs and had them accidentally discharge them in the shop. It will clear out a room pretty easily.

mind you I’ve also experienced different pepper sprays, and bear spray

[Arthur]

Youth: Hit with pepperpall and tear gas in PDX. I went home. Turned me from anarchist to libertarian lol.

Adult: BJJ / MMA (8 years)… Most people don’t know how to fight. Home invasions are rare but we shouldn’t limit it to that setting. You can be attacked in front of your home. your driveway or in your garage, which is far more common. 99.9% of the time criminals don’t want a fight and picked you because they don’t expect one.

Opinion. Put up a fight. Something is better than nothing. I’d recommend a base ball bat over pepper ball but we shouldn’t be arm-chairing people who have good intentions. (Protecting themselves). Honestly I kind of appreciate pepper ball because this person understands they don’t know how to use a gun either. The elephant in the room is how many dipshits that think they can John wick because they can afford an AR. Not every neighborhood is the same. I’ve lived in bad and good.

[Trbo323]

thing with pepper ball rounds is it's better that they don't hit you. Shoot the wall beside you or the roof above you so the powder disperses around you





Pepper balls are more effective than you would think. I used to service the pepper ball markers for the local sheriffs and had them accidentally discharge them in the shop. It will clear out a room pretty easily.

mind you I've also experienced different pepper sprays, and bear spray

You're not convincing me on this one. Back when pepperballs first came out, I forget which show it was but they went and interviewed the company etc. Part of the piece was a demonstration, they shot the guy (I want to say President but not positive) from pepperball a handful of times, he is out there convulsing like he is having a mild seizure, doubles over on the ground puts a have up the whole 9 yards, it was extremely obvious he was acting it up. Next they shot the host of the show, it was clear the pepperballs had an effect but it wasn't anything close to the "stop the bad guy immediately" that the pepperball guy wanted you to believe. Host guy is wiping at his eyes and coughing a bit but still on his feet and is able to walk back over to the camera.

Yes I'm sure the pepperball in your work space is an irritation, I'd also wager that if I told you (and you believed me) that there was an unsigned winning lotto ticket in that room you would be going back in there. So if a monetary award isn't going to stop you from going into a room with pepperball, why should I believe it is going to stop someone who already has assault on their mind?

Hell if I'm already willing to commit breaking and entering and assault, honestly if you shoot that thing towards me and hit the wall and I realize it's not a firearm the situation just got worse for you. Remember you are in that room as well, if the pepperball is not going to stop you from defending your house, why would it stop me?

I always tell people pepper spray or a Taser are much better options. With the spray you have a much better chance of hitting someone in the face and taking away their sight and possibly breathing. (Possibly) Physically stopping them not providing an irritation.

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[Frmrspec]

99.9% of the time criminals don’t want a fight and picked you because they don’t expect one.

that’s what I think others don’t understand.. home invasion doesn’t happen because the criminal is a badass looking for a fight. It’s because they are a coward and looking for a soft target.