I'm in Pfizer's COVID vaccine trial, ask me anything.

[sniper97]

I got the 2 Moderna shots just because I want to go places and do things. first shot sucked, 2 shot really fed me up...Chills , Headaches , loss of apatite and so on,,,, I got the card under duress ... I was told to have my Vax card for a flight I'm taking ... Booster shots next????

Like the cartoon! Lol

[woouulf]

lhamilton1807, Was it a choice? This is the issue I have with some people , they say its a choice to or not too but not too's have ramifications for that choice... Yes I could have chose not to fly or go to public events....I received my 2nd shot the day California reopened and I was asked if I had the Vax the next day entering a Casino and ended up having to wear a mask... Its called being coerced...I didn't want to be labeled as a killer, spreader or a non patriot.....JFI , California is going back to a Mask mandate soon and Los Angles already has... It just seems odd the the mention of the Delta and the Mask mandate are mentioned here all in the same breath/news bit....Do what you want...But get the shot or________.

[lhamilton1807]

I need to apologize for my snide remark. It wasn’t helpful.

Ultimately it IS a choice. Not a an easy one, I get it. There’s a lot of angst about the shots, the economy, new drugs that have never had full approval, potential long-term side effects, and vaccination requirements at some workplaces, schools, and for travel/events. But you can choose to change jobs, not got on that vacation, attend an online school, etc. Life doesn’t always give us Awesome Choice A vs Awesome Choice B, especially in crises. We’re in the middle of one now, and we’re presented with Crappy Choice A (stay unvaccinated, have some opportunities limited) and Meh Choice B (risk the needle stick and have doors opened). The Oh No, Not More! Choice C is continued lockdowns. None of them are optimal because there’s nothing optimal about a crisis. One could argue that millions of deaths and long-term disabilities (death and life aren’t the only two outcomes of infection) caused by the disease doesn’t constitute crisis, but if that’s the case I’m not sure how to reach you.

The details and data Diomedes has shared have made Meh Choice B much more palatable. Risks are low, effectiveness is high, and the rewards are that the virus can be slowed down enough for life to return to healthy activity. Or we could choose A or C. Those are options. For me the pandemic is over because I’m vaccinated. And it is for you, too. For others, it’s still raging on and may continue for a while. We don’t get to make these choices for others but because we breathe the same air their choices do have consequences for the rest of us. That’s life on planet earth.

[BrickHaus]

I reluctantly got the 1st shot last night. Ive been avoiding it as I wanted to see more backed data on side effects, but 6 months of data is about my minimum threshold. That coupled with the recent data of hospitalization rates being published, I figure I may as well get it over with.

On the other hand, I also feel semi coerced in doing so. Like wooouf said the " you have choice" argument is a loaded one. Its equivelant to my parents telling me I have a choice to go to a party, but the house will be locked when I get home.

i understand, there is a conflict in everyone between personal preservation, and civic duties, which is why this debate seems to get no where for both parties. One side feels you have to get this vaccine as its your duty to mankind to help stop the spread. The other is convinced they will have to run the world when the vaccines do their damage to the rest of you. Its basic human nature to try to stay alive, and if people truly believe this vaccine will harm them, they are going to fight getting it.

I have HCM, or Hypertrophic cardiomyapathy which is an enlarged septum wall, with damaged tissue in it. Its a hereditary condition. I have an ICD installed at 33 years old. The reported side effects of heart swelling from both vaccines have me scared shitless to be honest. Which is why Ive waited this long to start the process. But Ive been repeatedly told my stance on the vaccine is selfish, cognitatively dissonate, and or ignorant. When people really dont understand the full reasoning behind the decision, and it is pretty unfair to say the least. Its a hard choice to make when you feel its truly kill yourself to save others, and I ask some of you to try to understand that vs belittle the other party.

That being said, I took shot 1 last night, and Im hoping Im fine, but itll be in the back of my head for a while.


And to wooulfs point wearing a mask in public feels only like a label for those who choose against at this point. As it was presiously stated by the cdc that wearing the mask doesnt protect ME from contracting the virus, it prevents ME from spreading it if I have it. But they also stated in later research that asymptomatic spread is highly unlikely ( before vaccine rollouts), so why do I have to wear a mask if I feel fine? Again, IMO its being used as a tool to coerce people into getting vaccinated. It seems like being masked will only increase my chances of picking it up from a potentially vaccinated carrier who isnt masked.

I think thats part of my mistrust for the whole thing. The rules that are now currently in place are essentially putting unvaccinated people at greater risk, but appealing to "normal life" as a reward for getting it.

Ive also been off of any social media platform and or watched minimal T.V. since at least pre election, so Im not being fed any data. All I see/ hear are the radio ads, billboards and what people are talking about, so my information has been limited.


Needless to say, you guys who think you are bashing your heads on the wall. People listen, Ive decided to get it reluctantly in part from the data put in here, and mainly due to me being sick of work forcing me to wear a mask in a fab shop for 10 hours a day. Your efforts werent a total waste. My wifes pretty estatic to boot.

[Jordan]

After how many years and how many recalls. If Johnson and Johnson can't get sunscreen right...

Also Musk founded and sold 2 successfully companies prior to Tesla, PayPal is one.

Why the recall? So, benzene was found during a product test, performed by the company. Benzene is not an ingredient found in sunscreen, which indicates the contamination happened during the manufacturing process.

J&J did their due diligence, caught it, and are recalling the product. It has nothing to do with their formula - they're not deliberately adding benzene to sunscreen.

This happens all the time. It's just people like you and me making the stuff, and mistakes happen, unfortunately.

[Diomedes]

Why are we talking about J&J?

[lhamilton1807]

Diomedes because it made a vaccine and people are concerned it may not have been vetted/tested well before emergency authorization. It’s a reasonable concern. I think there’s still plenty of reason to not be overly worried about this one - vaccines aren’t sunscreen, and all of the scrutiny has brought a microscope to any small issue. The J&J COVID vaccine has had a couple stops because of health concerns. But they’ve been caught and analyzed out of caution. That’s the system working as it should. If you’re concerned about this one in particular, you have other options, both of which work quite well.

[Jordan]

Diomedes, I was just addressing the argument of "J&J recalled sunscreen therefore their vaccine must be garbage".

I'm done casting pearls, though.

[Diomedes]

Emergency use is only allowed when there are not treatments. The prior examples by the OP were only phase 1.

Vaccines and treatments are two completely different things. Vaccines prevent infections. Treatments are given to patients with active infections. 100% not comparable and not related in terms of relevance for emergency approval of anything.

There are now articles on how Covid will last 7 yrs, Spanish Flu didn't last that long.

Also, why get a boster vs. an anti-body test.

The seven year thing is one of *many* hypothesized outcomes, but we're already seeing how this will go. I'll come back to it in a minute, because it's a worth a much longer explanation. But first, booster vs. antibody test: why not both? The Pfizer booster trial is, of course, placebo controlled. So half the participants are getting a booster, half not, and they're checking antibodies at various intervals for both groups, and whether the rate of breakthrough infections is different is lower in the booster group. More details in this post.

Now. How long will this <gestures at pandemic> last? Put on your biology caps, y'all. This is one of my favorite topics in evolutionary biology, and coincidentally, was the thing we covered in class just yesterday.

The first thing to consider here is that the answer is largely dependent on our collective behavior. If we land at a 90% vaccination once kids are eligible, that's the ballgame. Herd immunity will be in effect, virus can't spread, pandemic over. That's the ultimate goal, and there's only the one way to get there.

But if that doesn't happen, the virus won't stay the same. It's going to evolve, and we can predict what's going to happen. In fact, eighteen months in, we're already seeing it with the delta variant.

Follow me on this journey...

There are two main sets of resources that potentially limit the ability of a virus to spread: available host *cells* within a single infected person, and subsequent people to infect.

For a virus to compete effectively for host cells, it must be able to infect, replicate, and exit very rapidly. Early in a pandemic, this is the rate-limiting step in the viral life cycle, because everybody is susceptible to infection, so spreading from person to person is easy. So natural selection favors viruses that are extremely fast at infecting and replicating, quickly bursting out of their current host cell and moving on to new ones. In doing so, as you can probably imagine, they do a lot of damage to the host, meaning the hosts tend to get relatively sick. But that doesn't matter, because, again, everyone is vulnerable, to finding a new host isn't a problem. The problem is being too slow and losing the race for real estate within your current host. This is called *intra-host competition* and generally selects for variants that make you sicker.

But what happens once a bunch of people have been infected, or even better, once a ton of people are vaccinated? In that case, fighting for cells within your current host only gets you so far, since the hard part becomes finding a new host to spread to. So instead of competition within your current host for cells to infect, the limiting step later in a pandemic becomes the competition with viruses *in other people* for the fewer remaining susceptible hosts. This is called *inter-host competition*, and here, we tend to see selection for high transmissibility, often (not always, but often) at the expense of virulence (how sick you make your current host). This is because if you do a lot of direct tissue damage, your host may be too sick to be out and about exposing other hosts, or may die before exposing other hosts, which means you lose. So in a context where the supply of susceptible hosts is limited, the optimal strategy is to do less damage but make a LOT of viruses, increasing the chance of spreading if and when the opportunity presents itself.

This is *exactly* what we're seeing with the delta variant. Viral loads are 1000x higher than "normal" with delta, but it isn't more deadly, meaning on a "per capita" (for the virus) basis, it's a LOT less deadly. This means inter-host competition is predominating, and through past infections, vaccinations, and behaviors like distancing and masking, we're imposing selection on the virus that's favoring less deadly (but more transmissible) variants.

Everyone follow that? If not, hit me with question.

So how does this end? Well, there are already four coronaviruses that circulate all the time and cause a cold. No big deal at all. Could be that within a few years we have a fifth (assuming we don't drive it to extinction with herd immunity). But it could also settle somewhere in the neighborhood of the flu in terms of how dangerous it is, which would probably warrant a yearly, or every-other-year COVID shot, just to be safe. But "the pandemic", in it's 2020-early 2021 form won't last forever. It's already over, really. Between vaccinations and delta, we're in a different world now, and I expect that trend towards transmissibility to continue as vaccination rates increase (and especially once kids are eligible and we get a big bump).

Sorry that was so long. But that's why the seven years hypothesis doesn't strike me as reasonable.

[Tarsun2]

its fascinating about causing damage vs spreading (in the simplest terms).

the whole mask requirement and "my body-my-choice" is also interesting. Yeah, masks help everyone else, not the user; so why be a "martyr". but this is a lot like smoking indoors... isnt it.

my body-my choice; i should be allowed to light up a cig' at a movie theatre, restaurant, or other gathering. But for the "greater good", our government banned this. just like for the greater good, the government mandated mask wearing.

where were the complaints of tyranny when smoking indoors was outlawed?

im not going to try and convince anyone to vaccinate. i was up in the air about it but ultimately the decision was made for me as i needed it for work. I wasnt against it and i wasnt chomping at the bit to get it either. i only wish, as a collective, "we" could agree on something and work towards it.

im really surprised that this thread has remained as "respectful" as it has. this is usually a heated topic between 2 sides. there were some employees in tears when they had to get it.

[sniper97]

I guess we can agree on the 7 yr life of covid, Spanish Flu lasted 18 to 24 months depending on what article your read. I see it as a scare tactic.

Stopped by a gas station in MO, small town of 4000 people, had an in door smoking section. Hopefully we all agree smoking lacks any benefits. You can still buy cigs.

[sniper97]

We can all agree that paintball is fun!

[Jonnydread]

White male, atheist. Got my Pfizer back in April/May, wife is a supah nurse and was one of the first people in RI to get stabbed.

I still wear my mask in enclosed spaces, there have been many benefits to wearing the masks beyond COVID (reduced flu rates, reduced surface transmissions, etc.). I plan on continuing to wear yearly during cold/flu season, plus I don't have to brush my teeth as much

[Diomedes]

The asymptomatic spread is probably false,.has never happened before.

100% false. It's well documented in various illnesses. Chicken pox, for example. By the time the spots appear, you've been spreading the virus around for a week.

With all other viruses, natural immunities are greater than the vaccines

Nope. In some cases, an infection results in more robust immunity. In some cases a vaccine does. This statement also ignores the effects of boosters (a second, or possibly third shot), which confer *protective* immunity, rather than just *responsive*. Natural infections do not confer protective immunity (lots of antibodies actually present in your blood for a long period of times - months to years) because a single exposure elicits a primary immune response, which dissipates after a few weeks and generally doesn't leave high levels of antibodies behind.

This may be useful: A little while back, I did a short presentation during a conference for a local group that was connecting people with vaccine appointments. You can watch it here, and I'll embed it below. I go through the different types of vaccines and how vaccines work in general.

sniper97, before you keep spouting off misinformation like this, could you like, check first? Google it, check the CDC website, PM me, something?

Vaccine video:

[lhamilton1807]

Great video btw. Very straightforward!

[Target]

sniper97, before you keep spouting off misinformation like this, could you like, check first? Google it, check the CDC website, PM me, something?

I am not vaccinated and I choose not be due to medical and political reasons.

Medically, it won't work as I am on anti-rejection / immunosuppressants due to a heart transplant.
Am I at a high risk for infection? Very much so. I have not been released to go back to work due to my workspace. I work alone and do vehicle, boat, building and grounds maintenance and I keep the soft serve ice cream machine clean and working in our cafeteria so I don't feel that covid is of any more concern than ebola, zika, or any other germ that is out there . Staph infection would probably be more probable in my case.

Politically, well lets say that I believe that this pandemic is grossly exaggerated , not that it does not exist I'm sure it does, but that it is being used for political gain and control.

Diomedes said to google and check info prior to posting, one cannot do that as the only information available is what aligns with TPTB 's approved rhetoric.
How can we find "THE" truth, when , unless it is " THEIR" truth, it gets erased/deleted/ridiculed as being a conspiracy?

[Brokeass_baller]

I work with a guy that had a lung transplant just before everything hit last year. He got the shots as soon as he was able. What do you mean it won't work?

[Target]

My system will not produce anti bodies because of the medication. They suppress my immune system.
I am not producing antibodies to fight a CMV infection that I have now. CytaMegaloVirus is present in 80% of the population. I was negative, my donor was positive. I had no antibodies before that transplant, the few that I have now were given via IV.

He got the shots, was it effective?

[Brokeass_baller]

I'm not sure. He still wears N95 masks, or whichever ones are rated for contaminated environments. He wears the unvented model. I don't know if he's taken a proper antibody test or not.

[lew]

Politically, well lets say that I believe that this pandemic is grossly exaggerated , not that it does not exist I'm sure it does, but that it is being used for political gain and control.

First, good luck with the crap you're going through. Second, there's no "belief" necessary: the virus has only ever been a backdrop to a swindle. These "variants" will keep on being touted as long as the politicos can milk this farce for all it's worth and as long as folks keep listening to them.

Get vaccinated or don't. Make your own choice and don't force your selection upon others. This is not the end of the world or anything even remotely close so, for those who are, stop acting like it is.

[sniper97]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/20/if-a...e-hearing.html

WHO says probably came from a lab in China that Fauci over sees...so much for the bat trf. China will not release data to verify. Senate has removed funding and House is working on it.

I had covid, the end of July 2020, started feeling like a cold was coming on on Sunday, work in an office with 10 people...and no one in the office got it. I was in the office the full 2 weeks before getting covid. My family got it 4 to 5 days after I started show symptoms.

Also, Fauci has publicly said that covid might never go away, the Spanish Flu went away. Facts not fear.

[Diomedes]

Look if you want to can walk through the phylogenetic data and I can explain exactly how we know it came from bats. Viral evolution and phylogenetics is what I did in grad school. And if anyone wants to latch onto the specific codons some people erroneously claim are the smoking gun for a lab release, I have you covered on that one, too - viral codon bias is one of my very specific specialties. I would *love* to go through all those day point by point.

And I can’t believe people are still claiming you need to be symptomatic to transmit this thing. What’s even the point of disputing something that’s both obvious and trivial? Just being contrarian for its own sake.

[woouulf]

I forgot to mention the "Vax for the win" program here in California funded with Tax payer monies..

Vax for the Win - Coronavirus COVID-19 Response (ca.gov)

[Brokeass_baller]

Our governor is doing the same in Ohio.