Stock class cocker question

[MrDewtles]

So.... I got my hands on yet another cocker.

I just got back from my first slim's stocktoberfest and I'm really high on stock class right now. So I'm thinking of converting one of my three pump cockers into a stock class cocker.

Anyways, the one I'm thinking has a rat valve in it. So that should handle the higher pressure of CO2 right?

Also.... I don't know if the thread matches, but I was thinking of taking the regulator off and putting my CO2 quick change directly on. Is that going to blow out my valve? Is that a terrible idea overall?

I wanted to see what people thought before I devoted time to it

Thank you for your time

[Melrosejedi]

I use a rat 9/16 valve with no issues. I personally run a reg to make sure all shots are equal and run bucket on a drop. Usually averages 30-34, depending on temperature and allowed recharge time in between shots. I believe the 2000 cockers dont like running directly off co2, like the pre 99’s. Welcome to the stock class club.good luck on the build .

[Chuck E Ducky]

So I’m running completely stock CCM (full size reg only) I just run an ICD changer off the ASA. (32 shots @275-280fps 70*+ day)

Autococker parts gold kit a good reg that can handle regulating 800-900 psi down to 350 ish and not choke Will work.

I have a few setup with Palmers Carts that work ok. It gets the job done but I definitely prefer my CCM with the ICD off the back. I don’t even touch the reg. Tuned it for HPA and just put the ICD off the back. Only downside is it needs to be cocked to change out a 12g and the CCM fittings do not like 12g pressure. Some times they need a lil wiggle to not leak. If I put fresh orings and some Dow 55 the co2 expands them and they seal right up after a 12g or two.

Unregulated is very difficult to tune and you could have it shooting great in the Am and by afternoon it could be hot or not.

I have always been a Phantom guy but the past two stock class events I have been really enjoying shooting a Sniper. I definitely hit more shots with it. I actually built this to run a bottle because CCM says you can’t run co2 through there regulators. But I purchased a rebuild kit like 9+ years ago and have yet to need to do anything with it. A good tight bore barrel helps I run a .681 one piece barrel and it really helps with the 12g shot count I think.

[Chuck E Ducky]

I do run Leland’s / Red Rock Minnesota oil free 12g. The key is to use the full size CCM regulators. The mini regs choke over 450psi and require mid to low pressure you can’t run 12g on those regs.

[Spangler]

Do they still make the changers still?

[Chuck E Ducky]

Yes In batches, shoot them an email. When they get enough interest they will do a run. Or post up a WTB they run about 150 - 175 ish used.

[BLachance75]

I like regulated as well. It is also a lot easier to get setup.

I'm running CCM internals and have the reg set to about 350. I was getting about 35 shots per 12 g at Slim's. Mine will shoot full velocity from the first ball to the last. After the last ball shoots there is a tiny vent from the last little bit of air in the cart.



Like Chuck said you have to make sure that you pump before switching carts. I forget once or twice a day and end up dumping the cart down the barrel.

[NONOBLITUS]

All good stuff here. Like stated a Reg helps out greatly. What year Cocker you going with ? I am of a fan of pre 2K Cockers personally. The pre set WGP regulators work great for me.

[MrDewtles]

Word, thanks guys. I'll keep the reg. Going to eventually get a ICD. Some day I'll get my life together

I think I caught balls from both of you guys at slim's (definitely Chucky, more than once)

[Chuck E Ducky]

😈 I had a good weekend…

[Chuck E Ducky]

I got this one setup with a cart reg but I feel like off the regular ASA works better. It’s more consistent I think because it gives the 12g space to expand more.

Chris has a good point. Pre 2k are definitely more efficient. I need a center feed and Pre2k center feeds are pretty hard to come by. I have experimented with deVolumizing a 2k+ but I do find it less consistent when you do. I should try the piece I have to fill volume in the lower tube on my CCM see what happens. But the J6 is running so good I really don’t want to mess with it.

Next time we play if you want to try my sniper setup LMK.

You know who you should talk to is Hellion360 he has some super efficient Stock Class Sniper setups. He’s our local mad scientist when it comes to tuning Sniper/Cockers.

[Hellion360]

The summoning is complete, I have appeared!

[$L!mBo]

dang this is a nice build

[Hellion360]

If you decide to go unregged (in my experience) you will have the best luck with:
a pre 97 body with the smallest valve chamber
a valve with a small opening (I use a trimmed down Sheridan single outlet valve).
a hard valve spring
a bolt with 3 orings.
an insert type barrel

Easy to hit 30-35 shots with a vertical 12 gram changer with this sort of setup. Sometimes at the end of the cartridge you get a little velocity spike. When it's warm out I have gotten 38 full velocity shots (over 270 fps) over the chronograph.

The small valve opening and hard springing helps mitigate temperature related pressure fluctuation. It is basically the same setup that a sheridan has.

[MrDewtles]

I totally forgot I had an image of the marker in question.

It's got a CP regulator, which operates at too low a pressure correct? I feel like I should switch that.

9/16 rat valve

Inception trident bolt

Original springs lolo, so I guess I need some stronger springs?

I'm also going to get a different trigger and frame when I can

[Chuck E Ducky]

Dose that feed neck mount with two screws? You might be able to bolt a phantom feed directly to it just by unbolting the feed neck. Got a picture of the other side.?

[Jonnydread]

Dude you should consider selling that frame, those are worth $$$ and snipers are best with a single trigger anywho

[MrDewtles]

I'll post it tonight if I think of it. In trying to remember if it does and ... I can't lol

[MrDewtles]

Ooooooooo boys, she's got two nuts

[Chuck E Ducky]

Yup pull those off bolt on a Phantom Feed directly and you have a great body to build a right feed Stock Class body already.

I would get a tight bore barrel that one is likely large bore. Look for something in the .681 range. I like one piece J4 has singles one piece ones for $35 they are awesome!

https://www.j4pb.com/product-page/pat-singles

Grab some finger detents from RedLeaderSB for unusually small paint if yah need them.

You could likely sell that frame for a good amount and pick whatever design you want unless you prefer that style. I like a good single trigger on a pump myself. If I had a choice I would do one of these with there new Roller sear and trigger setup. Maybe do a dust black on the dust gold theme to avoid having to Ano anything.

https://mozakmachine.com/more-produc...y-slider-frame

The Genesis pump kits are sweet I would run that.

See how the stock internals perform before you go changing them. You might get away with just a spring kit and some tuning. Give it a good cleaning and lightly oil it. See ware it’s at.

[MrDewtles]

I've got a single piece .681, I so that's covered.


Are the screw holes in the same locations and do they tend to be same thread?

[Chuck E Ducky]

Same location not 100% sure on the thread. It will mount with a single screw just like a Phantom.

You may need to adjust the screw length I can’t remember but you probably have one of the easiest body’s to convert to stick fed.

I really like that color body that’s going to make a fun build.

[MrDewtles]

Sorry if I'm annoying.

Is there a difference between the older phantom stock class feeds and the newer ones?

Also, if I were to sell that trigger frame ... Would it be worth less without the safety? All of the unpainted components literally disintegrated when I took the trigger apart, and I never cared to replace the safety because I made it a pump anyway.

[$L!mBo]

there are a bunch of different phantom stock class feed styles.

the two "official" ones are

-plastic feed with aluminum tube ("2-piece")

-boxier shaped, aluminum "1- piece"

i find that for stock class snipers, the 2 piece works best. it gives you clearance for the back block and bolt pin and imo looks better and smaller profile on the cocker bodies

i think the frame would be worth just a little more safety included. but not much

[MrDewtles]

Oh oh! I forgot another question I had with a different gun. My phantom hammer hasn't been catching the trigger sear when I pump it. It typically did that previously when it got gunked up from a ball chop or dirt or whatever. But now it's cleaned and oiled and still not catching. It's an eBay rescue and I haven't changed the springs. Do you think it could be a weakened spring?

[$L!mBo]

is this when pressurized?
phantoms wont cock unless pressurized.

if youre still having issues, adjust the pump rod

[Chuck E Ducky]

I have never worn a spring out. They soften a lil unless a cool breaks it’s not your springs