Thanks to Reflex0283, who sent me a very nice Pro-Carbine body, I have a 3rd Pro-Carbine cleaned, resealed, and functional. Hopefully, I have hit rock bottom.
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I'm doing the same mods to a Carbine bolt that I did to a Model 98 bolt. I did a bunch of fitting tests this am to see how close the fit could be to the power tube and the CP barrel breech while maintaining very low friction movement. Did blow tests through the power tube with the end of the bolt blocked and the bolt half a bolt length off the tip of the tube. The tests indicate that you can barely get any air through the gap between the bolt and the tube at all. Considering the very short pulse duration of air release in a firing cycle, I don't believe orings are useful in these types of bolts. I am tailor fitting the OD of the bolt for the breech of the CP, and anticipate that other barrel types would require a resized print.
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I putzed around yesterday with several designs, but settled on one pretty close to original. I printed one for each of my three Pro-Carbines, and they all cycled just fine. Ran out the last of my air, so Im hoping I can get to the field this weekend to fill up the tanks and snuggle up to their chrono for a bit.
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Would your feedneck rattle solution also work on a Pro Am shroud/feedneck? With barrel screwed in, shroud in place & screw tightened, mine still has a slight wiggle. I doubt i'll use anything more than a 100rd shake-n-bake (or smaller), though, so maybe it won't matter.Comment
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I got my hands on a couple factory vert angled ASA blocks and was having a go at trying to restore and install the brass air line. As I worked, I was getting annoyed as shit that I could not remove the air line fitting from the valve while the rest of the internals were still in the gun. The spring and hammer would push the valve forward 3/16" or so. As I pondered that, I also realized that this unsupported space meant a couple other things.
1.) The pounding that the valve takes from the hammer is being born solely by the air fitting into the valve.
2.) The increasing off center cant of the power tube as you increase the depth of the velocity adjustment screw is also due to the rear of the power tube not being supported.
These are all bad and annoying things. Tippmann probably thought it was "good enough" and they were right from their perspective.
After some time with calipers and software, I made a spacer to take up this space and support the valve and power tube against the power tube stop ring in the body. It had to be small and allow air to get through the side passages freely. It also needed to be completely symetrical so that one didnt need to install it in any kind of perfect orientation. This is what I came up with.
I figure there will be a small amount of constriction from the spacer, so I put my bored out power tube back in. Hopefully the velocity screw and the tines of the spacer will equal the constriction of the original 4 holes in the back of the power tube. I don't have a lick of air, so I will have to wait on further testing till I get some.
Playing around testing shows that it does completely achieve the 2 corrections needed above. The power tube is now completely square with the body at all velocity settings, and the valve lines right up and stays so.
Despite its frail appearance, the spacer itself is pretty tough. Its not gonna break in there under pure compression loads.Comment
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One more thing I had been thinking about since getting the bolt made is trying out a relief channel for the detent. This should keep the detent fresh while the gun is in storage with the bolt forward to also keep the mainspring in good shape. The detent normally goes up almost to the power tube, so I did allow it to push the detent down about 1mm so I could have more meat above the channel. I wish I could do this to the 98, which is much harder to change detents in, but the wider powertube makes for a thinner bolt wall. Not much to work with there.
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Thanks! I plan on using the stock bolt, my improved bolt, and the improved with detent cut back to back next time I can get to a chrono. If the FPS is similar, Im going to crank a couple hoppers throught the detent cut model and see what happens. I don't think the cut gives gas anywhere to go. If it holds FPS with the other bolts and doesnt chop balls, I don't see a down side. Time will tell.
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I had zero success this winter getting this thing to shoot above 240fps. Using the time tested method of simply walking away, a solution finally appeared. I was making and testing a bolt for my Inferno, when I saw a drop of 50fps with the new bolt. Some of that is the 64g-25g lighter weight, but no way is that all. I suspected the scoop out cut for keeping undersized balls from hitting the lip of the bolt was causing it, so I removed it and started a reprint. While I waited, I decided to check the carbine out again. I put the stiffest spring in from my Techt 98 springkit, and the stock bolt with o-ring. Velocity restored. I even had a smidge of overhead. The failure of this project was a bit of a bummer. Having it so suddenly and successfully rendered completed is very pleasing. I love the way it feels, which means it will get used.Last edited by Calvin; 04-14-2026, 06:38 PM.Comment
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That's why I always cut the ramps in bolts that either already have a front "o" ring or I have an "o" ring groove added. The "o" ring keeps the blowback from going into your feedneck and helps keep the velocity up, but still let's the ramp do it's job of gliding beneath undersized paint instead of clipping it.
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I "think" I have this thing finally field operational.
I still had weird occasional bolt bounces with it. I also had switched to a macroline connection that held air consistently until it suddenly decided not to. My goal is overbuilt reliability, so things were still not trending in the right direction. I had ordered a new 60/4500 tank and one of those cheapo ebay 1000psi output regs. Finally got the reg, and got a chance to assemble the tank and fill it while playing yesterday. The high output tank changes everything. I was able to move from the stiffest techt spring to the weakest. I still had a weird occasional bolt bounce, and realized it was the adjustable spring cap. It had about 3/32 more length when screwed all the way in than the stock cap. This put the recock right up against the bumpers limit. Went back to stock. Now I am getting 260fps with the velocity screw all the way in and 315 with it all the way out. I am at 290 where it is set in the pic. The lighter spring also lightens up the trigger and I can really rip on it now.
This is frivolous setup, but I love the way it feels. It is light and points well. The nostalgia rush is intense. I will be busting out next field day for sure.Comment
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Just got home from the field. First 2 games I played with my Poo build Enmey, which worked perfectly and eliminated many. After 600 balls expended, I switched to the Carbine for it's virgin outing...well, born again virgin. I played 4 more games and finished off the rest of the case. Ho-Lee-Crap did it run well. Zero ball breaks. Huge numbers of eliminations. Even played a game in the speedball arena and didnt want for anything. The techt wide pin, double trigger combo works very well, and the pull is short, light, and crisp. Cranks out plenty of BPSes for my needs. The bewilderment of all around me as to what manner of bestial equipment I was using was entertaining to say the least. One young 20 something called it an Ak47. I did not object.
I was giddy that this project had come to a fruitful end. Upon my return home, I was greeted by a package from MCB member Kit. He graced me with this gorgeous piece of Palmers Brass that will increase the moral force of every elimination by an order of magnitude.
If my wife would let me, I would be back at the field tomorrow to use it again. I won't be.
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I got out to the field today, and used the Carbine half of the day. It was absolutely fantastic with the brass barrel. I know there is a belief in many that "a tube is a tube". I do not agree with that notion. Some barrels throw good balls, and some do not. This Palmers brass throws a good ball. I did have a ball break 4 games in with it today, probably at the 2500ish ball mark since I started using it. I think it was just a bad ball. Gun didnt stutter and it had been rock solid to that moment. I can say that the Palmers barrel will NOT shoot through a break. This gun is competetive with anything. I had people throwing masses of paint at me with spaceguns only to subsequently receive a ball to the mask at its hands. These things are worth using.
edit: Breakdown for cleaning confirmed a barrel break. There wasn't a spec of paint in the bolt or elbow, even after shooting 50 more balls post break in an attempt to stay relevant through the last minute of the match.Last edited by Calvin; 05-03-2026, 08:17 PM.Comment
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Retro trappings added. My brother runs a bike shop. Back in the day I used to rummage through the used bits bins for handlebar grips for my Carbine barrels. They make the transition area at the front of the body more comfortable as a hand hold. Yesterday I recreated the bin raids of old and got my three carbine barrels rubbered up.
Truth be told, I think he enjoyed it too. We can both use all the memories of youth we can get. He used to play PB with me, and used a Carbine setup just like this with a 10" Taso Pro Series barrel. Trying to get him to do so again, but I don't think he wants to take the hits that I find to be an acceptable cost of doing business.Comment
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I did some science on the Carbine over the last few days. Thought I would share the results.
Since I now have the Carbine fully operational, and it is nice outside, I figured it would be a good moment to revisit the remaining goals I had failed at during the winter.
1.) Get marker shooting with velocity adjustment bolt wide open, and adjust velocity with spring tension adjustment only.
2.) Make bolt with relief cut for detent finger and ball scoop for gentle action on today's smaller paint.
This would be a good moment to mention that a month ago I had made an updated design for my powertube supporting valve spacer. It fits into the hole for the rear valve plug and is supported by it's clip. This new design is far better.
I decided to put the RVA back on and to make two new test bolts. The diameter of the stock bolt at the oring is 17.5mm, and the diameter of my previous bolts is 17.75mm, so I don't thing the oring is what is making the stock bolt yield higher FPS. The first test bolt has only the detent relief cut. This is mandatory. I will simply run the stock bolt if I can't have it. The second bolt has the detent relief cut and a much smaller ball ramp that is barely longer than the beveled nose of the bolt.
Chrono testing on a .685 CP 14" with all 3 indicated that my bolts were both about 15FPS behind the stock bolt. This is MUCH better than the 50FPS loss I had with the longer ramp. The short ramp fed just fine, and should yield the same benefits. The first 150 or so balls on the chrono were all done with the internal velocity bolt changed out for a cut bolt with a sealing oring, and only the RVA for velocity changes.
The first note was how little change I got from the full range of the RVA. I had to change out springs from the silver to the green to get 15-20FPS more, and the same small adjustment range applied with that spring. I also was seeing wildly larger velocity deviation ranges with this setup than I had with the stock rear plug and stock velocity adjustment bolt. I switched back to that configuration and chronoed another 100 balls. The deviation range went from +/- 20 fps with the RVA to +/- 8-10 with the stock setup. Not sure why that is, but it was definitive that the gun prefers that. Cycling of the gun was rock solid with both setups.
Now that I know that the shorter ramp helped immensely, I stared at that bolt and the stock bolt for a bit. The most obvious difference is that I had a subtle bevel to the front and back of my bolt. Looking at it in the gun, I saw that I could also be loosing a bit of pressure out the back of the bolt at the far forward part of the cycle. Since the balls will only interact with the bolt at the point I had already inserted the small ramp, I believed I could do away with the bevel in the front as well. I redesigned the bolt with squared off front and rear and reprinted.
On the chrono, I was now within 5FPS of the stock bolt, and was around 6-7 FPS in deviation with the green spring and the stock rear cap. I think the 5FPS loss is probably more due to the detent relief cut than the ramp, as the detent seals most of the cut it sits in, but is hardly built to gasket tight tolerance. There is 8mm of sealing bolt between hitting the valve pin and exposing the ramp, so that is much better sealed than the always exposed relief cut.
With the green spring, I have plenty of overhead to get my ultra large bore brass barrel up to speed. It is barely stiffer than the silver spring, and I can't feel the difference in the trigger pull. I believe this is the go to setup moving forward.Comment
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For the front bolt I ended up super gluing a U cup seal on the back of it because I was sure that there was air escaping from the gap. I noticed, like you did, that when the bolt was in its forward most position inside the barrel it was completely off the powertube. I haven’t chrono’d it yet but I think it’s a fix
Are you testing today? If so, I was wondering if you would be willing to try it? I think the seal is a size 13 or 14. I have a spare powertube so I super glued the seal on the bolt then slid it on the tube briefly so it would settle in the right spot. It was super snug at first but I applied some grease and broke it in, now it feels pretty good.
If you get good results I was wondering what a more professional way of doing this would look like instead of super glue?
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I also decided to make an extension from the bottom of the grip to form a trigger guard of sorts. I don't want to show up to a new field and have someone tell me I can't use it without one. It is very light, and very stiff. Do you all think this would be acceptable to some random persnickety field operator?
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Man, this thread is great. You're making me want to dust off my low force E99 project and work on it again. Good stuff.
As for the trigger guard, it's hard saying but think it'll fly. The only field owner I know who might say something would probably allow it if for nothing else the old-school cool factor but you never know.Comment
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CalvinAttached FilesComment
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I don't even know where to find that part. I will look around. I am sure I could design a notch into the back of my bolt to give a larger area for the CA to bind to. The rear gap at the front of the stroke is quite large, so this could potentially be a large increase in velocity and efficiency. -
Calvin All I own now are Tippmanns so it’s got to be in an o ring kit I bought for one. The Raider is basically an Enmey though and I do remember buying an Ion o ring kit
I did a quick search and maybe it’s a U cup seal for a Cyclone hopper. I’m not sure. I have like 4 or them so that definitely could be it -
Ah, makes sense now. I though it was a generic hardware store part. I did some measurements last winter and concluded that there was zero extra space for the bolt to be enlarged backwards. It comtacts the base of the power tube right as it squishes down the bolt bumper. Anything that bridges that gap needs to be supple enough and tough enough to be squished down continually into a near zero length and then bounce instantly back to 1/8" and bridge the gap at the forward end of the stroke. I decided it was what it was, and to just live with it.
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