The BEST Co2 Gun ever made!??

[Trbo323]

Any marker your like. Run a remote and a Palmer's stabalizer and you can run co2 through anything

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[XEMON]

True, it all depends on what tank you have, how it's oriented and what you have between the thank and the valve.
I use 12g to test everything ...

[Brokeass_baller]

Ain't that the truth. I ran a Stab and an expansion chamber on an old Automag and it shot very well on CO2. I don't remember it ever freezing up with that setup.

[Jordan]

Any marker your like. Run a remote and a Palmer's stabalizer and you can run co2 through anything

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Not entirely true... Automag RTs will have issues with sustained co2 useage, something to do with how the valve recharges, and most modern markers use seals that are not very compatible with co2.

Otherwise yes...

[Trbo323]

, and most modern markers use seals that are not very compatible with co2.
.

Except the only reason that is is because liquid gets in and freezes them, remote line +Palmer's removes that

Remember, there's already co2 in air, the same air that goes into your tank, it's just a much smaller percentage. If the o rings have some adverse reaction to co2 they are going to do it either way

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[Jordan]

Except the only reason that is is because liquid gets in and freezes them, remote line +Palmer's removes that

Remember, there's already co2 in air, the same air that goes into your tank, it's just a much smaller percentage. If the o rings have some adverse reaction to co2 they are going to do it either way

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Stabilizers don't magically prevent liquid from getting in, they just have an over pressure vent that will help avoid pressure spikes if liquid gets through. Some WGP regs, like the stock non externally adjustable ones, work equally as well, for the same reason.

It's my understanding, from the limited information I've found available on the subject, that certain seal materials will absorb CO2 and swell. I have a feeling that trace amounts of CO2, if any, present in the HPA we use (1/10 of 1% is pretty low) are not nearly as detrimental to the seal and its lifespan compared to saturating the seal in only CO2.

Perhaps I should phrase it as "you may experience significantly shorter seal life when using CO2 in a marker designed for HPA".

[Meleager7]

Hi Jordan, if liquid CO2 makes it into a Palmers Stabilizer, and the over-pressure relief valve kicks in, is the Stab still regulating output pressure at the PSI it is set to?

[Jordan]

The PRV (pressure release valve) is preset by PPS at a certain psi (depends on the model of Stab) so any excess pressure above that setpoint is bled off rather than be trapped between the reg and marker valve chamber. The reg will continue to regulate at whatever you've set it at. I don't think pressure adjustment affects PRV setting, ie: PRV set at 500psi and Stab set at 350psi, there will potentially be a 150psi excess pressure buildup in the valve chamber of the marker. You still may shoot hot, once, but not at the FPS it could potentially be if the pressure post-reg was allowed to build.

Or I'm completely wrong and that's not how it works at all. 🙂

[Toestr]

Except the only reason that is is because liquid gets in and freezes them, remote line +Palmer's removes that

Remember, there's already co2 in air, the same air that goes into your tank, it's just a much smaller percentage. If the o rings have some adverse reaction to co2 they are going to do it either way

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I remember cockerpunk saying the flow rates were so high through such small passages, that CO2 would freeze the valve after a few shots regardless.

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[russc]

Expanding a refrigerant gas through a restriction results in a cooling effect, I imagine the on/off mechanism in Automags has problems with this.

[Trbo323]

I remember cockerpunk saying the flow rates were so high through such small passages, that CO2 would freeze the valve after a few shots regardless.

Well that seems super vague, and if true I don't see how co2 was ever used for paintball in general. Everything uses a valve and even if he was talking about cocker valves, spyder valves are very similar and flow more co2/air

Stabilizers don't magically prevent liquid from getting in, they just have an over pressure vent that will help avoid pressure spikes if liquid gets through. Some WGP regs, like the stock non externally adjustable ones, work equally as well, for the same reason..

Nothing is a 100% guarantee to keep liquid out, but as I had that set up, vertical tank into a remote line through a stabalizer and finally into the marker, you are going to have to get into some very specific circumstances to overcome all of that

It's my understanding, from the limited information I've found available on the subject, that certain seal materials will absorb CO2 and swell. I have a feeling that trace amounts of CO2, if any, present in the HPA we use (1/10 of 1% is pretty low) are not nearly as detrimental to the seal and its lifespan compared to saturating the seal in only CO2..

Sure, maybe, but what "certain materials"? I would assume not polyurethane or buna since those have been used for years without problem.

But also, even with trace amounts, think about the total volume of an o ring, it's not much, I would imagine you would saturate that pretty quickly even with air. And heck, we have all seen that player who plugs a co2 tank into a mini without knowing better. It doesn't blow up immediately

Perhaps I should phrase it as "you may experience significantly shorter seal life when using CO2 in a marker designed for HPA".

O I'll agree to this, while keeping the liquid out minimizes it, there still is the temperature differential between the two gasses, co2 tends to be colder which, in my experience at least, shortens o ring life spans

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[Toestr]

Cockerpunk was talking about the automag rt valve specifically.

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[Jordan]

Well that seems super vague, and if true I don't see how co2 was ever used for paintball in general. Everything uses a valve and even if he was talking about cocker valves, spyder valves are very similar and flow more co2/air

He's talking about RT valves.

Nothing is a 100% guarantee to keep liquid out, but as I had that set up, vertical tank into a remote line through a stabalizer and finally into the marker, you are going to have to get into some very specific circumstances to overcome all of that

All I was pointing out was that Stabilizers DO NOT block liquid from entering, but do have a safety feature if liquid does enter the marker.

Sure, maybe, but what "certain materials"? I would assume not polyurethane or buna since those have been used for years without problem.

But also, even with trace amounts, think about the total volume of an o ring, it's not much, I would imagine you would saturate that pretty quickly even with air. And heck, we have all seen that player who plugs a co2 tank into a mini without knowing better. It doesn't blow up immediately

Buna will absorb liquid CO2 and swell. My apologies, I should have specified the material type and that I was speaking of liquid CO2 in my earlier post.

[Trbo323]

This is kind of my point though, you have to get into super specifics to find scenarios that co2 won't work in (if you do a few basic things to help it)and basically set things up for failure all so you can say "co2 is bad"

Vertical co2 tank in a pack, into a remote line, into a Palmer's stabalizer, into a RT mag, through the forgrip or looped hose and finally the regulator and valve

Hell just pop the hose off the side of the mag and open up the tank, that is a ton of volume for liquid to get though. I doubt you would see snow even then. Maaaaaybe if it's like 40 or below out but even then you would still have to overwhelm the stabalizer.

Point is, you can run co2 gas on anything, its an inert gas. People have problems when they get liquid into the marker but there's a few easy ways to make that almost impossible.

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[Toestr]

Is CO2 the evil gas that it is sometimes portrayed to be? No. But it is often the less economical and convenient choice in comparison to HPA, which has far less a risk of damaging your gun under any given air set up and playing condition.

As a side note, based on what I understand about rt valves, they will freeze up even after a few slow shots with CO2, not the sustained rapid fire that causes it in most other guns.

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[Jordan]

You're right, for a number of reasons, but I think we'll have to let that particular horse rest in peace.

[gabe]

You guys went way the hell off track. Anybody have thoughts on what the best guns on CO2 actually are? IMO blowbacks reign supreme on the "forbidden gas".

[NONOBLITUS]

Agreed. Think the point was pre HPA as a fun talk with older players like myself.

[Trbo323]

You guys went way the hell off track. Anybody have thoughts on what the best guns on CO2 actually are? IMO blowbacks reign supreme on the "forbidden gas".

Well that's the problem though, which markers constitute a "co2 gun"?

Everyone seems to have a different opinion

Hell, if memory serves correct the azodin blitz in the manual says HPA only but if you call azodin and ask them to set one up for you to use co2 they will swap out the macro hose to steel braided, so is it a co2 gun or no?



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[Meleager7]

Yeah, although it’s fun to hash out which more modern guns might tolerate co2, I think my topic was more geared toward what was the top performing gun on co2, before the new models started coming out that were recommending “HPA only” ....

[Jordan]

I'd have to say my Typhoon was the best CO2 gun I've ever used... with my Factory F/A a close second.

[Meleager7]

That's right,the Palmers guns! The top tourney teams back then were running Mags and Cockers with co2 because they could be shot faster, but the Palmers guns were really coveted , desired guns to get as well, as custom as you wanted, expensive, beautiful......and they came loaded with co2 friendly pneumatics right off the hop....expanding on this idea, maybe the Nasty Typhoon takes the crown as the best co2 gun before HPA took hold!

[gabe]

I guess that boils it down to what the "best performing" gun on CO2 is...

Seems like anything with a good reg or expansion chamber should qualify. Stainless braided hose is a must for sure.

Again, I'm going to go back to a Spyder. They run pretty darn fast, are smooth, tolerate/love CO2, and are still pretty accurate on co2. As a bonus most of them came set up for CO2 right off the bat whether that be having an expansion chamber or a vertical tank setup.

God I miss vertical tanks. That use the be THE THING to have is a 20oz on a vertical ASA. It was cool to be able to just set the gun on the tank and have it balanced sitting upright on the bottom of the tank.

[NONOBLITUS]

Agreed I loved the vertical feed with the tank hanging down.

[XEMON]

I found myself going back to BBA and vertical setup too ...

[NONOBLITUS]

NOT CO2 on here , but I love this setup when I run this Phantom Mag fed.