I'm in Pfizer's COVID vaccine trial, ask me anything.

[Diomedes]

I don't know what the mix-and-match protocol will be, but I'm guessing it won't matter - the pfizer and moderna shots are pretty darn similar. My guess is they'll say you can mix, but that's just a guess at this point.

The data that have been released "officially" (so like not random people doing antibody tests) show that at 6 months the levels are still really really high. Like, I think it's that anything over 0.8 something - I forget the units - parts per million, micrograms per milliliter, I forget, but whatever - anything over 0.8 is "you have antibodies" and people are testing at like 1200, 1500, even over 2000 six months out. And the dropoff is time-dependent. It differs for every vaccine, but it's not just gonna collapse overnight. So we should be pretty confident that given what we know about levels at 6 months, protective antibodies should persist for 8, 10, probably even 12 months, although the levels at, say, 10 or 12 months might indicate a booster vs. Delta and any other variants that are different enough that the antibodies don't target it as effectively.

In the booster trial right now, they're only looking at people at least 6 months out from their 2nd shot to see exactly what the timeframe is where the booster helps, if at all. We don't know the answer yet, but we will in a couple of months, if not sooner.

I have no idea how all this impacts J&J. For what it's worth, J&J is less effective at reducing the risk of infection (still really good, just not *as good* as pfizer or moderna), but importantly, it is basically just as good at reducing hospitalization and death. And that's what matters, at the end of the day. If we turn this thing into a mild flu or a bad cold...that's actually okay.

[Diomedes]

So far, the vaccines are doing well against the variants. There's some variation - the efficacy against Delta isn't quite as high as the others, but before people read that and panic, consider 2 things:

1. Most people generate such high antibody levels that a slightly lower affinity doesn't have much practical significance. There are still plenty of antibodies to do the job, even if they are less effective at it compared to the older variants.

2. The dropoff in efficacy is most pronounced over age 65, since it looks like that's where you see a decline in antibodies after 6-8 months. Not a complete loss, but a decline from WHOA THAT'S A LOT OF ANTIBODIES to okay that's still a fair amount. Which is why, for example, in Israel they're doing a booster for over 65s - get those levels back up.

[The Inflicted]

Has anyone done much research into the safety and efficacy of boosting the J&J shot with one or both doses of either of the MRNA vaccines?

[flyweightnate]

Is a Moderna/ Pfizer booster recommended (or even available) for those of us that got the J&J shot out of the gate? I'm seeing that J&J is 66% effective in one study, 95% in another...

[JonM]

How long after initial immunization will they recommend a booster shot? Since I was in phase 1A of the rollout, my vaccination is now nearly seven months old. Is it as effective now as it was early this year?

[Jonnydread]

Right there with you man. Some folk get real up in arms about it, but it's really just not a big deal to slap a pice of cloth on your face while you're around other people, it just isn't.

[un2xs]

Kansas Governor Kelly has directed that mask again be worn in all state buildings. KSU indoor mask mandate went into effect today. We are apparently one of the hot spots in the state.

Gee, I wonder how many people will be looking at me funny now when I wear my mask in public indoor spaces? (I started again when I saw the curve starting to go up again... I don't really care what others think. I have had my shots, but I go everywhere on campus. I do not want to be a one person spreading center.)

[Loophole]

Question for you Diomedes. Most of my family got Moderna instead of Pfizer just due to it being way more available in my county.. do you happen to know if the Pfizer booster will be approved for both Moderna and Pfizer vaccinated folks?
Many thanks!

[Diomedes]

Couple of updates:

First, the data are preliminary so far, but it looks like a booster shot does increase the levels of protective antibodies, and that helps against the delta variant. So it's possible it becomes generally recommended once that arm of the trial is complete.

Second, it looks like kids 5-11 will be approved within a month or two, with kids down to 6 months following a few months later. That's the real game-changer - once basically everyone is eligible, cumulative vaccination rates will go through the roof, and we'll probably be able to hit herd immunity.

And third, all of that stuff aside, it sure looks like you standard two shots are doing a good job protecting against all of the circulating variants, even delta, despite being more transmissible. Even with higher transmissibility, break-through cases are extremely rare, and almost all deaths are in unvaccinated people, so those breakthrough cases tend to be on the mild side. The reason seems to be that delta likes to hang out in the nose, so it's easy to spread, but when it gets down to the lungs it gets swamped by antibodies and can't do much damage. If you go back a couple of pages you can find a long post on why a virus would evolve to be more transmissible as a pandemic progresses, and this is more evidence for that trend. Which, to be clear, is a GOOD thing. It means we're making it harder for the virus, so it's adapting by becoming more transmissible. That means we're winning. Slowly but surely.

[Brokeass_baller]

I'll check that link out. At least I'm being pointed in the right direction. Lol.

How do they collect disease samples? From corpses? Bodily fluid analyses? Voluntary sneezing into handkerchiefs? Lol. I never cared much about this sort of thing until covid, so please excuse my ignorance.

Also, any word on the some spike protein and vax effectiveness with this new strain?

Thanks a lot.

[Diomedes]

First, def related to the addiction.

Booster-wise, maybe? Everyone's keeping an eye on antibody levels, and if we see a drop-off in the 9-12 month range, or 12-15 months, or whatever, I could see it happening.

[Diomedes]

We know it's a new variant because we're constantly collecting samples and sequencing their genomes. I don't think there's a consumer level test available, but public health agencies are keeping a VERY close eye on which strains are where and what the relative frequencies are. "Delta" because that's just how we name things - greek alphabet. I think we actually have some Lambda now, too, but it's not at all widespread (yet).

[lhamilton1807]

Regarding variant names, they used to be identified by the country they were first identified in, like the UK variant, South Africa variant, etc. because there’s been a rash of anti-Asian hate happening (because OF COURSE anyone who looks like they’re from the Far East must have colluded to infect us all 🙄) they’ve named the variants by the Greek alphabet to avoid stigmatizing anyone.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wh...ed-11622656190

[Diomedes]

Yes, J&J is what's called a viral vector vaccine. It takes a different human-infecting virus, remove it's genes, add in the DNA for the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, and have that infect you. From there, it works like an mRNA vaccine, with an extra step in your cells, to make the mRNA from the DNA the vaccine vector brings in. This is still a very recent type of vaccine, I think it's the first such vaccine in use, but they've been working on viral vector vaccines for longer. I'm not sure why it's one dose vs. two, but I'm sure the people figuring these things out have good reasons.

[Jonnydread]

I would also like to know about this.