Paintball design concepts you can’t stand

[vijil]

-Bluetooth connected/smartphone connected guns/guns with apps for your phone etc. Come on, this is a cash-grab pure and simple. The gun companies have run out of legitimate upgrades to justify charging us $1000+ for a gun and now they've just gotten silly. Oh and I don't need my gun to talk to me, thanks.

There have been many REALLY BAD attempts at adding digital tech to markers and masks, but the potential for good ones is there.

Being able to tweak settings from phone with a decent UI without having to faff with awful tiny screens and LED codes

That's been done. Things that haven't been done:

Remotely being able to turn off markers. Great for rentals - game over, everyone instantly stops shooting.

Game stats centralised and viewable by the coach.

Built in cameras with live feeds. I'm sometimes surprised nobody has tried this.

Bluetooth links to hopper have been done, but nobody has ever tried using feedneck contacts to power a hopper and get rid of the battery weight.

GPS so you can see a map of where you went and when you were shooting, creating a heatmap of action on the field. Good for woods.

And so on and so on. Gimmicks mostly yes, but I'd like some of those.

[Jordan]

The Revvy Intellifeed was a feature on the Angel LED - corded, yes, but you could run your Revvy off the Angel's battery. I think it spun every time you pulled the trigger, too.

[vijil]

Jordan Ah yes I remember the intellifeed. The cable was naff.

A lot of good ideas are ruined by bad execution. This really needed to be based on feedneck contacts (no wires, no extra work or maintenance) to work well. But I can see why it was the way it was.

[alive]

Buddy had that angel intellifeed. Was pretty dope at the time tbh wire or not

[Trbo323]

GPS so you can see a map of where you went and when you were shooting, creating a heatmap of action on the field. Good for woods.

And so on and so on. Gimmicks mostly yes, but I'd like some of those.

That's been tried. The empire evs mask had a heads up display option when it was released that had a position tracking option

Problem was it was like $600 just for the HUD on top of the $150 mask and it only worked with other EVS huds. So not only did you have to spend $750 on a mask but you had to convince all your friends to do the same

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[vijil]

As I said, good basic idea, crap execution.

There are many ideas in paintball where terrible execution led everyone to think it was a bad idea and so it never took off.

Paintball companies really suck at execution.

[Drunkscriblerian]

There have been many REALLY BAD attempts at adding digital tech to markers and masks, but the potential for good ones is there.

Being able to tweak settings from phone with a decent UI without having to faff with awful tiny screens and LED codes

That's been done. Things that haven't been done:

Remotely being able to turn off markers. Great for rentals - game over, everyone instantly stops shooting.

Game stats centralised and viewable by the coach.

Built in cameras with live feeds. I'm sometimes surprised nobody has tried this.

Bluetooth links to hopper have been done, but nobody has ever tried using feedneck contacts to power a hopper and get rid of the battery weight.

GPS so you can see a map of where you went and when you were shooting, creating a heatmap of action on the field. Good for woods.

And so on and so on. Gimmicks mostly yes, but I'd like some of those.

Eh, call me an old guy but paintball really doesn't need this stuff. And I can see problems with some of these.

Like, the remote shutoff of guns? If used on rentals I could see unscrupulous field owners thinking these would replace barrel bags...with all the attendant safety problems that could result. The biggest reason to use plugs/bags is not to safe the gun necessarily (that's what safeties, trigger discipline etc. is for) but for field employees to be able to visually and easily confirm that a marker is safe from a distance. Take that away and you're back to the bad old days of "It's okay, I've got the safety on". If remote shutoff on rental guns was used as an adjunct to barrel bag policies that'd be one thing, but really...I just see that as one more reason for people renting equipment to get more lax than they already are about barrel bag safety.

Plus, the ability of guns to be remotely shut off opens the door to a whole new angle of cheating on the field. I just don't see how it would add much to the play experience, and I can see a whole crapload of ways in which wireless access to a gun could be misused by the unscrupulous. After all, this kind of thing is already happening with key fobs and cars regarding theft.

[vijil]

Gonna push back a bit. Not saying all or any of these ideas are actually good, but I don't think they should be dismissed out of hand.

And as I keep saying, it's an execution issue. Yes there are possible problems, but that's why you pay attention and execute well. I'm not going to go into details because honestly these particular ideas aren't the point - it's more the general point that digital tech could work if applied well.

Attempts to date failed at the execution part, mostly. EVS being an obvious one. Paintball isn't big enough for proprietary bs.

In terms of "doesn't really need" - I dunno, the world doesn't really need paintball at all. It's not about whether something is really needed (technically we never needed anything beyond the Nelspot), it's about whether it actually adds something meaningful.

[cockerpunk]

who was it making a "stacked tube spool"

bro, no one wants that. its a terrible idea.

[Ecapnation]

Poppit with extra steps

[flyweightnate]

I sold my poppets and kept the Torque. You're effectively eliminating the valve pin and valve spring by lengthening the ram, and it makes for a great shot.

Preference issue - like most things.

[cockerpunk]

zero reason to make stacked tube spool.

[The Great Equalizer]

If it is a pistol, it should be holster-able. Brass Eagle Talons, Vulcans, Laredo/Beetle/Point 83, JT ER2s represent 30 years of bad designs. They didn't get it right again until the JT ER2S (which they should have called the ER3).

Then you have the BT SA-17. Its right-hand feed. So you think, "Oh, they must not have wanted to change any of the machining from whatever other BT gun they cut it down from... except it has a TON of machining, both functional and cosmetic, they just didn't make it a center-feed so you can put it in a holster. Maddening!

[Ecapnation]

They recycled the spring feed from the tracer into that

[The Great Equalizer]

Changing the injection mold for the new Trracer spring feed would have been like $5k and in my opinion it would have made the SA-17 popular enough to still be in production.

[The Inflicted]

If it is a pistol, it should be holster-able. Brass Eagle Talons, Vulcans, Laredo/Beetle/Point 83, JT ER2s represent 30 years of bad designs. They didn't get it right again until the JT ER2S (which they should have called the ER3).

Then you have the BT SA-17. Its right-hand feed. So you think, "Oh, they must not have wanted to change any of the machining from whatever other BT gun they cut it down from... except it has a TON of machining, both functional and cosmetic, they just didn't make it a center-feed so you can put it in a holster. Maddening!

The SA-17 is a reworked Piranha USP, which WAS centerfeed springfed.
Both guns are notable for using full-sized Piranha guts instead of the miniaturized Spyder internals of the PT series of blowback pistols. This makes the USP and SA-17 bulkier, but more reliable than its competition.

[The Great Equalizer]

I didn't know that and that is even more maddening!

[XEMON]

the SA-17 is an awesome platform, not holsterable, but awesome.
I dont like to call it pistol" for that reason ...

[Cunha]

I never even saw the bt17. The USP rules but this looks better in every way besides I prefer the PMI brand. But if these are anything like the USP than its like the perfect pistol

[vijil]

Actually, one thing in paintball I could never stand was 12gms.

Like just in general. The idea of a tiny single use (effectively) pressure vessel is just incredibly wasteful.

Which is why everyone just uses tanks partly, but that doesn't work well for pistols.

Would love to see a pistol with a tiny refillable HPA tank (or multiple tanks?? Theoretically could be a 3D printed tracheal network of reinforced cavities with struts etc. into the entire body and frame) machined into the body somehow instead of using crappy 12gms. 8ci tanks are way too big. For a sidearm you only really need about 50 shots worth to a fill, if that.

[flyweightnate]

Ah, those both change the math.

On a primary, totally different (obviously), and spending as much on gas as paint would be irritating.

[The Great Equalizer]

I'd love to see someone use one of the built-in air tanks that PCP (Pre-Charged Pneumatic) pistols use. Quick example https://airguntactical.com/products/...-airgun-pistol that thing under the barrel is the tank. You can't tell me someone couldn't make a TiPX valve to integrate with one of these, though you would need a new shell/body too.

To the point made by flyweightnate couldn't you re-fill a 3000psi PCP tank in the field from an un-regulated 3000psi 22ci or similar tank on your belt or a specially regulated 4500psi tank? I doubt the first shot velocity change could be more than it is from the 9AM cold 12g I take out of the bag to chrono with vs. the 2PM body heat temp sitting-in-my-pocket 12g I reload with in the field.

Edit for better example https://www.pyramydair.com/product/h...l?m=4078#12790

[vijil]

Thanks for that - proves it's possible.

[Ecapnation]

LOL Have you seen an Automag RT before? I'm sure that it isn't the only paintball marker with that type of barrel shroud either. Simon was actually working with AGD around the time the Automag RT came out, so it's totally possible he was thinking of the RT body when he made a similar design for an Emek body. Another thing to note is that Simon is machining aluminum bodies himself, not 3D printed plastic. The arrogance, ignorance, and gall of this post are incredible.

Cool story man but the tec9 is a fire arm from the early 80's

I designed the emf100 body style after it about a month after planet eclipse released the gun..... Inceptions version came out after mine was selling and had a lot of buzz in the magfed community.

Yes 3d printed but using commerical SLS machined printing in carbon fiber reinforced nylon.

[k_obeastly]

Not really a design issue but what happened to fade anodizing? They look more like two tone now with the entire fade taking place in less than a half inch.

[Trbo323]

Not really a design issue but what happened to fade anodizing? They look more like two tone now with the entire fade taking place in less than a half inch.

I agree, there's not really good fades anymore. Is it something with how they make the fade that makes it difficult or something?

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[nerdcore]

I dislike the lack of design over any other modern design choices. I miss body milling: FBM, AIM, some of the Intimidator bodies, private label milling, etc.

Having the only thing unique about a body is the colorway gets boring real fast. Literal re-skins.

[RhoXi]

Guns are too low for my taste these days. I like the barrel to be close to my eye line when shouldered with my head upright. I find with most single tube guns I have to scrunch my head down too much or hold it too high in my shoulder to be comfortable. Plus it feels like the hopper is more in the way and I'm frequently bumping my mask on it. I see a lot of tournament players resting their tank practically on top of their shoulder to get around this and it seems less than ideal. I don't have these issues with stacked tubes or my classic mag with the angled ASA.
I also don't like the trend towards longer barrels. Maybe it's because I mostly play hyper ball or woods ball but I much prefer 12" or even 10" barrels. It seems like most companies are only making 14"+ anymore. And yes, I know as an experienced shotgun shooter that longer barrels are easier to aim, but I feel like I can't play as tight as I want to on hard cover with a 14"+ tube.

[Grendel]

Use of MICRO and MACRO line.

[uv_halo]

Oh, got another one: 'Bounce' padding. Any kind of padding for the Torso, other than a bra for a woman. Knees and elbows (as in impact padding) totally fine. If you're wearing a bounce shirt, fully padded jersey's or pants, than you're taking away the wrong lesson from the game. You should strive to get shot less. If you're getting too many bruises, learn to use cover, and to maintain situational awareness. If there's a medical issue, that's a different story.

[Jsc5150]

Lol bounce vests are a scam.

I sold plenty at the shop, and told every person they would get too hot after half a game and they’d take it off

[Jonnydread]

Great point, I've always thought bounce vests were silly, but I've never quite been able to put my finger on why. GIT GUD