ICD Lasoya Promaster - build thread

[INpaintballer]

I have an icdu rammer. The shaft is thicker than the stock hammer to add weight and to have a large enough face to reliably strike the valve. I think you will have to bore out the stock housing to some extent. If I can find my calipers I’ll grab some measurements and weight.

[tyronejk]

I have an icdu rammer. The shaft is thicker than the stock hammer to add weight and to have a large enough face to reliably strike the valve. I think you will have to bore out the stock housing to some extent. If I can find my calipers I’ll grab some measurements and weight.

Nice, thanks! That'd be super helpful. Although the stock rammer housing has a threaded section close to the top wall, so the only way to bore out the ID would be to also change the backcap to thread into the inside of the rammer housing (like the ICDU rammer).

In other news, I machined the first prototype Promaster-Laz valve. I don't have air to test it, but all of the oring fits seem reasonable.

I did attempt to retain the 111 bumper oring but made the retention lip too small. It should affect the operation of the valve though, especially if I'm gonna be using this with a smaller diameter ICDU-esque rammer.

[latches109]

Fun begins!

[Myrkul]

So....is there going to be a pre-order for those Promaster compatible Lazarus valves? Because I'm definitely interested....

[tyronejk]

So....is there going to be a pre-order for those Promaster compatible Lazarus valves? Because I'm definitely interested....

I hadn't planned on making any besides one for myself but I can make a few more for those interested.

I'll be sending latches this first valve body and a couple hammers to test so we'll see how these work. It seems a slightly longer hammer will be needed to avoid having the bolt pin strike the gun body but these hammers are super simple to make. I would have to order some stainless steel to make these but a lighter aluminum hammer may work with this valve, which would be great.

[tyronejk]

Laz valve body and couple hammer options (lightweight aluminum and slight-heavier-than-stock steel) ready to be sent off to latches109 for testing. I don't have any SS of this size on hand, so the heavy hammer is plain carbon steel and may start to rust but I'm hoping the aluminum hammer is the way to go.

[Trbo323]

Glad to see that promaster is getting a refresh

The drift kit I traded him on the other hand, Turns out the pump arms are very different. It's been sitting in a bin until I can order a few parts

Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk

[autococker04]

Is it too short?

[Sneak Miester]

Let me see if I can find my old drawings of a new ram, housing, back cap, bolt pin

[tyronejk]

That'd be awesome

[Sneak Miester]

Ok found them, I wanted it to be the same as a Cyborg ram housing.
i had the original drawnings of the ICDU rammer , this is where I got the dimensions from. I also created a ram guide . Not sure if this will help you or not

[tyronejk]

Those are great, thanks! If I had a mill, I might try making a totally new ram housing, but that becomes difficult with just a lathe. So I probably won't build something exactly like this, but this design also points out a flaw in my idea. You have a ram guide here that may be crucial to prevent the ram from pivoting around too much when fully extended, since this (and my) hammer are smaller in OD and aren't guided in the body itself.

[tyronejk]

I think I've found a reasonable solution to the rammer guide issue. Since I have the room to extend the rammer backwards (omitting the spring back there), I can add a Delrin spacer/bumper/centering guide to keep the rammer from wobbling when fully extended.

I've also discovered that an Empire Sniper/Ressy bolt fits well in the bore of the Promaster body but is a little too long (valve port seems to be in approx the right spot), so I have one on order that I'll trim down to fit. If there's enough material, I may cut features into the tip to add a soft tip from an Axe bolt I have lying around.

[Myrkul]

I wouldn't bother with a soft tip bolt. For B2K's and pro-masters, what they really need is "o" rings to prevent blowback up the feedneck, and then a ramp to not clip tiny paint.

I have like 20 cases through blind bushmasters that have a ramped bolt, and have yet to have a chop or barrel break, and the field paint is 0.675.

If you can't find a vapor bolt with "o" rings, there is also Alamo city 3-"o" ring bolts for bushmasters and pro-masters, or BMC can add "o" rings and a top ramp to your stock bolt for $45.

[tyronejk]

Oh ok, good to know. I still plan to modify the Ressy bolt to work, but won't bother with the soft tip then.

[Myrkul]

Yep, just get the length right and be sure that the ramp is on there and you should be good to go. I've tested the bolt ramps out extensively and they work great.

[latches109]

Updates and results tomorrow

[TinCan1154]

Oh my

[zinger565]

HOW AM I JUST FINDING THIS THREAD?!

That said. Super interested and willing to help out however I can. Testing, maybe purchasing an lpr cap to help fund further R&D, offering general ICD knowledge and shitty suggestions. You know, whatever.

I have a yellow fade lasoya begging for some love.

Edit to add: we have a new mill coming this year at work that I'm sure will need some testing. Might be able to talk the shop supervisor into running some parts on it.

[Sneak Miester]

Get them to make me a GG promrammer above ☝️

[latches109]

Stock valve is sitting at ~190psi - shooting 305fps. The Laz valve is installed now. Going through the testing with a different hammer weights. I also have a few springs that I can test. It airs up with no leaks.

[latches109]

So far, I’m not getting any benefit from the Laz valve

[tyronejk]

Interesting. No change in velocity (compared to stock valve + hammer) with either the steel or aluminum hammers I sent you?

[Myrkul]

Stock valve is sitting at ~190psi - shooting 305fps. The Laz valve is installed now. Going through the testing with a different hammer weights. I also have a few springs that I can test. It airs up with no leaks.



So far, I’m not getting any benefit from the Laz valve

I would think the benefit of the Laz valve in a ICD gun would be in reducing the LPR pressure. At least on my B2Ks, the VA/Reg Adapter has a far larger impact on the HPR operating pressure then any of the valves I've tried do (with the MacDev and Zenitram reg adapters having the lowest operating pressure because of the added volume, and the eclipse VA having the highest operating pressure). I have a LPR pressure tester for a B2k but not a promaster if anyone wants to borrow it to move this project forward.

It's also possible the pressure needed to overcome the bolt & ram drag is already in excess of the pressure needed to open the valve in either situation though. I always prefer polished vapor bolts in my ICD electros for exactly this reason. The "o" rings ensure it seals, and the polished Nylatron is SO damn smooth.

It's also really important to polish the ram shaft as much as possible, at least on B2K's. I've had great results using quad "o" rings in the rams too, but nothing really seems like it improves the shot quite as much as having "o" rings on the bolt and the polishing job on the bolt.

[latches109]

Confirmed, as you suspected benefit is lower LPR pressure

[latches109]

Interesting. No change in velocity (compared to stock valve + hammer) with either the steel or aluminum hammers I sent you?

Laz increased HPR 10 psi to match 305FPS. The LPR pressure was constant. I tested the lpr pressure from 50-100psi. velocity gains capped out at 80psi. The difference from 70 -80 was only 4fps so I dropped it back down to 70. Using an AKA LPR and a liquid filled 2.5" gauge on the LPR port. Dwell was set at stock 8ms. Having a heck of a time getting the hammer off my extra ram. I refuse to mark the shaft. The testing was interrupted by Octoberfest this afternoon, so it will need to continue later. I also tested, removing the spring and that dropped to 245FPS.

Myrkul i have quad orings I can test. Polishing I'll save for later, and run it as a separate test.

[zinger565]

Makes sense removing the spring dropping the fps. It's likely there to overcome static friction of the ram seals.

[tyronejk]

I don't recommend using the stock hammer with the Laz valve. You may have contact between the gun body and the bolt pin and the valve may not be fully opening. At least, this is what happens on my gun. Did you check for these on yours?

[latches109]

I agree, but need it for a base line comparison. On the autococker I could reduce the accretion and keep the stock hammer for the PSI drop. Going to check for mechanical issues. I also have a second Layosa promaster here to test.