Cup seals

[StockMike]

Does anyone have an CCI-era cup seals they’d be willing to part with? I have now ordered 2 batches from EV, and I’m not impressed one bit.
The first time I ordered them, the seals kept sticking and coming unseated. I’m told there was a bad batch of them that made it out right around the time EV took over. Fine, whatever. Mistakes happen. I ordred another batch of 5 cup seals and they arrived last week or the week before. Today I finally got around to replacing the bad cup seal I had. Immediately I saw they are not the same. They are a solid white color, thicker, and don’t fit as snuggly into the brass cup as the old ones do. I figured I’d gas it up and try anyway. Leaks down the barrel. Took a different phantom, not having any issues, and swapped the cup seal. Leaked down the barrel. Tried 2 other cup seals out of the package I ordered. All of them cause leaking down the barrel.
I have sent a message to EV hoping to get this resolved. Anyone else having trouble getting seals that fit right?

[StockMike]

[flyweightnate]

What, they just got nylon washers from Lowe's?
DocsMachine can you punch a few hundred?

Last time I played my loaner Phantom was acting funny, then stopped shooting entirely. The old cup seal had swollen, then extruded in between the nut and powertube, jamming it shut. A ten year old CCI seal fixed it just fine.

Embarrassing that nobody can get the right bouncy disc to keep the game's oldest continually manufactured platform (right?) running.

[StockMike]

If DocsMachine, or someone else, can make a bunch…. Put me down for at least 10…..

[SignOfZeta]

What a %#@$-ing joke. Verily, this is the lamest.

[russc]

Looks like the old ones are just a simple urethane disc. Not sure why you'd change away from a time tested material.

[XEMON]

They do need to justify the price increase 🙄

[StockMike]

Well Jesse at EV responded to me, very quickly to his credit. His answer, however, seems pretty bogus to me.

“We've moved to a harder material cup seal which works the same and even better than the old ones, as it is less likely to grow from CO2 use. They're also no longer directional like the previous cup seals.”

I thought the old cup seals were very omnidirectional…. Several times I have just flipped one over if it had become worn or torn or anything.

I continuing to state my case and belief that this design of seal is bad news, I hope it can get corrected to everyone’s benefit.

[Chuck E Ducky]

OG cup seals are reversible. You can flip them and get another century’s worth of play out if it.

[SignOfZeta]

It’s pretty pathetic when you need an aftermarket alternative to a still in-production part because the quality has fallen absolutely into the sewer and the manufacturer is denying reality claiming that it’s improved upon.

[XEMON]

given the quality and what they are asking for them, they are soon to not be "still in-production" ...

[StockMike]

Well i sure hope the seals are available elsewhere…. Otherwise there is a finite lifespan on every phantom out there.

[Myrkul]

So when I got my phantom I was able to pick it up for cheap because the prior owner had rebuilt it with an EV cupseal, and "shockingly" it didn't function afterwards.

I just used a drill & sand paper to knock down the brass collar on my power tube a bunch (it was bent to hell anyway and almost destroyed) and then slapped a nylon Spyder cupseal on there. Been using it for about two years and I have yet to have the Spyder cup seal leak on me or have a single issue with it.

[JonM]

If it works, it works. Good to keep in our back pocket just in case.

[Grendel]

Just punch your own seats, buy some sheet urethane and a cheap set of gasket punches and go to town. Honestly I never was a fan of Mikes cup seals the work but I change out cup seals on phantoms more often then I have my other Nelson clones even when I was getting stuff from CCI.

[SignOfZeta]

So when I got my phantom I was able to pick it up for cheap because the prior owner had rebuilt it with an EV cupseal, and "shockingly" it didn't function afterwards.

I just used a drill & sand paper to knock down the brass collar on my power tube a bunch (it was bent to hell anyway and almost destroyed) and then slapped a nylon Spyder cupseal on there. Been using it for about two years and I have yet to have the Spyder cup seal leak on me or have a single issue with it.

So…two solid years they’ve been shipping garbage then. And still are.

I don’t know how a company overcomes that kind of repetitional self harm. They should be actively waging a campaign to track down every bad seal and replace them. Instead they are insisting that shit is chocolate. Are they Intel?

I guess the Phantom really did die with CCI. I sure as hell won’t recommend anyone buy a new one.

Bad cup seals…
Lame Springpheed
2.0 body shipping with a “do your own research” set of o-rings
2.0 frame that is designed bad and doesn’t work on CO2.

Any other issues?

[Booska]

I haven't had any problems with CO2 on my VSC 2.0

If anything, the big problem with the 2.0 is that you are basically required to run a red spring with it to get up to velocity and the pump stroke is brutal with a red spring. Also, moving the air passage plugs is a pain in the ass and I wouldn't even bother with it on the field between games.

My 2.0 shoots 290 all day long on 12g when I'm playing in 80-105 degree weather and shoots 290 on HPA at 825psi. Again, all with a red spring though which is the biggest issue with the 2.0 in my opinion.

[Chuck E Ducky]

Just punch your own seats, buy some sheet urethane and a cheap set of gasket punches and go to town. Honestly I never was a fan of Mikes cup seals the work but I change out cup seals on phantoms more often then I have my other Nelson clones even when I was getting stuff from CCI.

Really? I very rarely have to change one. All the issues I see now come from EV. I get 10+ years of hard use out of the older cup seals if they leak I flip them and get 10 more. My Phantom gets used a lot it gets lubed with outlast and I use food grade 12g but when it gets cold I use HPA on it. I don’t think I ever replaced a cup seal on my Phantom. I bet it’s got more field time than the average baller. It’s my most reliable setup hands down.

Even the older phantoms that get abused rarely need cup seals. 90% of the time you can just flip them. If they even have an issue. I have cleaned some abused phantoms up it’s rare for them to need seals.

The issue with EV seals are they are to soft and are griping the sealing surface. The harder ones don’t seal as well.

We do have a member working on new seals I haven’t tested them yet. But he’s showing good results.

Also a Spyder cup seal will work in a pinch. You can lap them with fine wet sandpaper on a flat surface to re seat them off needed.

Vito was selling some older aftermarket ones that looked nice at Slims he said they work great in a bunch of different Nelson markers. I might grab a few this year to try.

I wonder if it would be worthwhile making a new brass cup that held a oring like CCM’s cup seal. They use a 90 duro black bunna and I cycle 12g through mine all the time no issues with super light CCM springs.

I just don’t want to mess up my amazing efficiency I get on my Phantom so it’s got to sit the same as the original.

[Chaos]

Try these..... https://pgpjunkies.bigcartel.com/pro...WgBv-gzz_csZ1A


I've been using Phantom Cupseals as Sheridan Faceseal replacements for many years so there's no reason I see why these shouldn't be suitable replacements.

[Booska]

I haven't had any problems with cup seals from EV. That said, I'm using a newer EV power tube assembly, not an original CCI power tube assembly.

Overall, I've had positive experiences with EV.

They've gotten some deserved flak for the bad cup seal batch, high prices on new markers, etc... but their customer service is great and they're keeping parts available. I just picked up a RAW 12g changer and 12rd feed for a project from them. A quick email or phone call to Jesse is all it takes.

[Chuck E Ducky]

They are trying I will give them that. I’m just seeing a lot of new owners with phantom issues out of the box new. That’s kind of disappointing from a customers perspective. Lots of new owners don’t know how to fix them. On HPA they work fine put a 12g to them the valves are sticking.

They have added some cool options like the New brass hardlines are cool! They use dual stacked orings to seal the hard line instead of the rubber puck. Seems to seal up just fine. I polished mine up to match the gold splash.

I don’t like that they offer the Phantom with macro line fittings. They shouldn’t even offer that unless it’s a detacated open class phantom. They leak especially at higher on / off pressure phantom needs to run on to function properly.

Still haven’t figured out how to get my 2.0 hose less frame to work. (Choke city)

2.0 body’s rock tho with the detent mod.

Spring feed works meh 🫤 needs a lil love to operate properly.

The new piercing pin seals are hard I hope they work I haven’t tried them yet.

[Booska]

100% agree

I regret buying a new phantom from them. I wanted to support what they were doing, but I paid way too much and had a few problems.

I mainly appreciate them for parts nowadays, but definitely wouldn't buy a marker from them again. There's way too many gorgeous CCI phantoms that show up used for half the price as EV

[JonM]

The used market was always an issue. Thirty years of reliably built Phantoms out in the wild leaves a lot of wall hangers looking for a new home at a reasonable price. I can see why EV is trying to innovate. Bringing out features Mike never did is one of the few ways they could convince people to buy new.